Questions for Matte Painters

[Kokosing]

Hi, I’m putting together a proposal for a project that may involve some digital matte painting and set extension and I’m realizing I don’t know much about it. So before I start thinking about costs and workflows, I wonder if I could ask you all a few questions:

Do matte painters specialize in different styles? Would one prefer to work on realistic cityscapes and another on fantasy or sci-fi? I ask this because I may be proposing do to something quite painterly, possibly heading towards abstract.

How do matte painters budget their time? Is it on a per-image basis?

Are there obvious ways to make a matte painter’s work easier? For instance, if I can avoid tricky transitions between foreground and painting, does that ease the painter’s workload.

How does a matte painter fit into a process like this: I shoot foreground elements with little or no camera movement. I do any camera tracking required and possibly build some projection geometry. Could a matte painter take it from there? What would I expect the painter to give back? Some bitmaps, or a 3D scene with images projected? Would I ask the matte painter to handle any part of the compositing? Or is that strictly for the compositor?

Thanks for taking the time to think about this. Reading this back, I see I may come across as a bit ignorant. My background is not in VFX, but more in motion graphics. So while I have some insights into this world, I have a lot to learn here.

Thanks for any advice,

W

[mordecaidesign]

Thanks for posting this. It doesn’t come across as ignorant and we can all certainly learn from a discussion like this.

Do matte painters specialize in different styles? Would one prefer to work on realistic cityscapes and another on fantasy or sci-fi? I ask this because I may be proposing do to something quite painterly, possibly heading towards abstract.

In the digital age matte painters typically don’t specialize in different styles. There are exceptions to this rule however. There are matte painters like Brandon Kachel that specialize in “invisible” mattes and set extensions. Brandon does EVERYTHING really well (including fantasy), but his invisible work is outstanding. Even his fantasy paintings border on the realm of invisible work.

(By invisible I mean work that doesn’t look overtly painterly or fantasy/sci fi like ie: lord of the rings, chronicles of riddick.)

Dylan Cole is great at everything as well, but he seems to specialize in epic fantasy/sci fi work. (his invisible work for Daredevil was amazing as well.)

How do matte painters budget their time? Is it on a per-image basis?

Most matte painters charge hourly but will certainly have an idea in mind how long a matte painting will take per shot. Just ask. Send a request for proposal and tell them about the shots/project.

Are there obvious ways to make a matte painter’s work easier? For instance, if I can avoid tricky transitions between foreground and painting, does that ease the painter’s workload.

tricky transitions? not really following you. Do you mean changes in depth of field?

How does a matte painter fit into a process like this: I shoot foreground elements with little or no camera movement. I do any camera tracking required and possibly build some projection geometry. Could a matte painter take it from there? What would I expect the painter to give back? Some bitmaps, or a 3D scene with images projected? Would I ask the matte painter to handle any part of the compositing? Or is that strictly for the compositor?

Some matte painters can take a shot through to completion but the easiest way to handle something like this, is to hand the matte painter an offline shot and discuss with them what they want the finished shot to be. A matte painter should be able to hand you back concept art. When this is approved some matte painters can take a shot, paint it, composite it and project it. But don’t expect this to be the norm. Most matte painters won’t have the necessary skills to key out the greenscreen, and roto the talent, so doing as much of this yourself will help.

[Kokosing]

Thanks. That’s very useful information and a big help.

By transitions I mean the areas where the foreground plate ends and the painting begins. I assume it would be easier for the artist to work with a clear drop between live action foreground (say, the facade of a building) and the painting (perhaps a dramatic sky.) As opposed to a scene where the plate is wider and only contains a small single building and the artist has to paint the matte to include both distant background and all the other foreground scenery.

On a different note: this project is a LONG way from going forward. I’m just asking questions now to get a sense of the task IF it does happen. So for the time being, it’s probably not worthwhile contacting me with portfolios. If this goes forward I can promise I will be back here to ask more questions and, when the time is right, invite artists to submit their work. I have a great respect for matte painters, and I wouldn’t want to waste anyone’s time.

Thanks,

W

[mordecaidesign]

By transitions I mean the areas where the foreground plate ends and the painting begins. I assume it would be easier for the artist to work with a clear drop between live action foreground (say, the facade of a building) and the painting (perhaps a dramatic sky.) As opposed to a scene where the plate is wider and only contains a small single building and the artist has to paint the matte to include both distant background and all the other foreground scenery.

Ahh. I see what you mean now. The farther something is from the camera, typically it becomes easier to paint because it loses detail. Clouds are an exception to this.

Most matte painters shy away from painting foregrounds or interiors so you’ll have a hard time finding guys/girls who can.

Tim Warnock and Swoop have good examples of matte painters doing up close work but as you can see it’s very “few-and-far-between”

[RiKToR]

Uh… I think I can field that last question. Ultimately give a painter what you have and if they need mask out the plate they will. It would be great if you could through up a green screen or a some way to easily mask out the foreground from the background but its not really needed. Painters can do quick Luma keys and such to pull the FG objects out and we just use them as place holders while painting when the painting is handed over they will give the FG as layer just for reference.

[Kokosing]

Great, thanks!

W

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