I personally enjoy the baby and alien images for more to this, and this is considered an example of the BEST work Cg-Talk can produce.
I agree Cg-Talk shouldn’t accept sub-standard work, but Jack’s work is the bomb. This is setting a standard that most industry people couldn’t match, it could possible alienate people for even submitting work.
I totally agree with JackZhang. I didn’t submit my work for a long time, but if there’s still a grey-shaded rabbit as an example, this topic is totally understandable, and the disclaimer should be revisited with examples, which show that even finished work may not be approved, and 50% or so of works get rejected.
Hi
Mate The web servers, on which CG society website is hosted, are private property No one has any Democratic or civil right to tell the CG society website owners or their authorized agents what Computer image Data can be uploaded and Displayed on their web servers that is and has Always been the reality.
With that in mind “Censorship” does not apply because of the private nature of the property.
if one can Disable or Delete comments from one’s Silly youtube page that one does not even pay for or own.
it is reasonable to assume that a corporation has the right to Discern what is displayed on their private web site
the criteria used to make such determination as wholly irrelevant and at the discretion of the private site owners
I remind you that this is not a magazine that is based subscribers who buy the magazine, this is a forum that supports 3d and artists of us posted and do a forum grows or collapses. without us they are nothing, and I think you have forgotten the importance that we have, how many people leave the forum in 2011.
Do you believe that in half an hour you can pull 300 works by artists who applied weeks or months in their work and that does not bother the users of the forum.
Really you’re a great censor and you will never censor a work of mine, and I repeat that I will not back up any, besides asking me erased from the list of users when finished my last thread in the forum … … but as this is a dictatorship can expel me if you want
The problem is that it’s so subjective. Of the examples jack has given, after Leigh’s explanation, I can look at the rejections and say “yeah ok they rejected it because of xyz”. But the accepted images aren’t any better imho. One may have better lighting, yet the modeling is sub-par, or maybe the technical execution is great (modeling/texturing/lighting) but the composition sucks. Having to consider all these different elements, which ones are more/less important, & measure them on the ‘good enough’ stick, & trying to maintain a consistency of that evaluation…well I wouldn’t want that to be my job.
Especially when you have multiple people trying to do this job it’s just not going to happen without some kind of structured guidelines, and these ‘why?’ threads will undoubtedly become the new “how can I get jobz!” daily subject.
thx1311
But I do not want to belong to a forum that act as a company, internet has an air Democrat who has no other sectors. YOU ARE forgetting the importance of users … you want that, well that you will have.
I think it is not about what they decide is art or not. It is more about the technical quality of the artwork at hand…
Whether the mod feels the artwork needs improvement or not is the major thing that is being critiqued, (aswell as editing out pieces that don’t conform to various parameters such as nominal decency for instance…).
However, this is not me agreeing with the actual decisions being made, another thread popped up with similar theme and I felt the pieces were fine.
What I am saying with my post is, don’t take the decisions personally, They are saying, artwork could do with improvement, thats it, don’t take it beyond this. This was a generalized message not so much aimed at the Original Posters reactions, but me sharing my experiences with being rejected on another site, some many years ago. It took me the majority of a Year from 02-03 before I found a good rhythm with my art, it sure did help.
But to add, even if you have a vast amount of experience one can always improve…
LigthSovereign, I think if you had to send someone to wip is what makes the selection of works would have to learn that we can not reject an image that the fill light is not convinced.
These attitudes will never take me positive, there is a work rejected by the Great Censor has won a prize in other international fora and was not accepted here
That is the approach being followed here, you will see
The best works also get into magazines from cg-choice gallery.
I don’t know buddy what you came up with there, but I find your insults not worth replying, as you first must prove it yourself, rather than me proving “I’m not the deer”. You also forget what mods do is hard work without much feedback, and that what I can relate for from my own experience, so that’s why I try to understand it. When something gets free, people take it for granted.
I agree this topic is good and brings up an important issue with people being prepared to 50% rejection.
People just need to see rejection not as a final statement they suck, but rather going to WIPs and listening to what other people say. I agree it’s very harsh, but is also good in some sense, because I didn’t browse the 3d-galleries for several years already, as I find most works boring.
damn it 20 minutes of writing a post and the browser crashed.
summary:
-ban poser from the galleries.
-the CG discipline isn’t science so there will always be a subjective factor determining the evaluation of work; hence people will disagree with rejections and awards and that’s understandable, but choosing to submit work is choosing to respect the decisions from above.
-is it not better to have an industry veteran such as Leigh reject and justify rather than a series of soapy three-word replies? imo it’s a thousand times better.
-w.i.p. threads rock, and pulling up gallery standards could re-launch them.
Decision from above is not the only factor in this equation. As I said above, it has more to do the submission instruction. The instruction showed me what’s an acceptable work and I followed it.
It’s awesome to have industry veteranS reject and justify works. But if there’s only one who runs the validation, that’s another story.
w.i.p threads… raise quality of work… stuff like that… well let’s just say that’s not the root of the problem. sending works back w.i.p section will help neither the quality of gallery nor w.i.p section. anyway that’s off topic.
yes, mine was a more general consideration. Looking at your work I do, as a personal opinion, believe that they’re gallery material, if compared to the average character piece. Especially the alien. I really like it.
I submitted a little disaster last year that was way, way worse than any of yours…and it got in. So I understand why you’re annoyed.
The submission guidelines page might benefit from an upgrade in order to clarify the situation, and maybe a structured grade system (something fast) might make things easier. To counter that one person decision thing, borderline cases could be put on hold for confirmation. Just an idea.
All of the images listed in this thread should have been accepted to the gallery. You don’t motivate people by saying 5 times that their work should be sent to WIP gallery for improvement because it’s not high quality… you don’t improve the quality of your work by working 1 year on the image, you improve it by making 10 images during the year and trying to improve with every single piece. Motivation is a big factor in this, and when someone is saying your work is bad all the time, you loose interest even if you had some potential as a 3d artist. If creator thinks it’s final, let him/her have his/hers place in gallery and let the people judge if it’s good or not. Someone will leave a comment telling them what can/should be improved, but if they think it’s final it means they closed that door and are ready for another project. This forum doesn’t work like company where you are asked for fixes/changes/improvements all the time, it’s a forum for personal art where once you are finished with your work you post it and forget about it.
Also, there was more justice with old 1-5 stars grading system, with new one I don’t leave any feedback for most of the images on forum because I don’t have time to write comments for more than 2-3 of images. With old stars system I was giving stars for every image I checked, giving at least some sort of feedback to artist, which I’m sure it helps even if they are not getting any comments. If, for example, I had few images on the gallery that got 1-2 stars I would start asking myself about the quality I produce and will start searching how to improve my skills… you don’t need criticism in form of comments to figure out that it’s not good enough, you just need few artists giving you low number of stars, and this is why old system worked really good.
Basically you shouldn’t reject art from gallery, you should accept almost everything but give more space to high quality art by promoting those images. I don’t know what happened today and yesterday but this is the first time I see more art plugged on front page, good step forward, even if it’s a small one.
InTerceptoV is right, because in the end frustration most people will get from this tough submission overwhelm the benefits of this approach, and people will stop submitting their works not to get this painful experience again. This is totally understandable.
All those works look good enough to me, I’ve seen some pretty weird works accepted into the gallery here.
There is always kick ass 2d work posted here, but barely any 3D work. I think if a model is done extremely well, even if its un-textured and just rendered in a professional manner it should be up with a chance to be on the front page.
At the end of the day Cg-Talk is only hurting themselves, in a sense you will lose customers coming here and buying products and memberships.
People wont bother using the forums as much, since they know there are other websites accepting a wider variety of work styles that help expose them.
On the one hand theres a growing 3d activity, making it absolutely necessary to have a selection at a gallery, if wanting to keep a certain quality standard, if wanting it to have there more than just a vast collection of everything produced worldwide. Leighs comparison with magazines is absolutely plausible. Maybe time to look at having a piece at the gallery as a privilege.
Leading directly to the on the other hand issue: the users (many of them the paying customers) are the authors themselves - a harsh contrast to magazines - making decisions about admitting a work to the gallery also a commercial question. Magazines need to please only their readers(to satisfy their advertisers), while CGTalk gallery might need to please also the authors.
Theres certainly a healthy balance needed between trying to get standards which are attracting professionals who are responsible for the attractiveness of the gallery, and comforting also the rest, the majority of the users.
(Jacks combat baby is cool, but i agree that the render quality could be improved, regardless of what the others have posted.)
The benefits of a tougher selection are:
-the 3d-gallery will be generally better
-people still have the chance to revise the work and get cg-choice award
-those who will survive… will feel good
The drawbacks are:
-with the bar set so high even award-winning artists barely able to get through, the selection becomes vague and subjective
-and therefore more artists become discouraged
-WIP forums are not active enough to manage the problem of rejected works
I think people remember the first time they submitted their works, not being good at all. There is a joy in seeing your work being approved and yet my works got 3 stars, I was over the moon. I can only imagine how hard it is for those who start. Cgtalk should encourage artists, and selection for cg-choice is already tough. Let the grit loosen a bit and artists breathe, not all people can be geniuses. In the end there’s enough denials for artists from employers, so what’s so wrong with this small joy of just seeing your work approved.
What is forgotten most individuals do works on their own, therefore it’s way harder than doing outstanding work in a team.
This is elitism, let’s face it. 3d is hard enough to let people seeing their work at least in 3d-gallery, that’s not too much to ask. Unfinished work is easier to define, whereas “good enough” may be anything and rejected works must be only those with striking violation like pornography and so on.
What is more important, the attractiveness of the gallery (which becomes subjective at this level), or the fish swimming and growing? Why is attractiveness of the gallery suddenly became so important? I imagine if lighting challenges were moderated like this, there would only several people left. This just doesn’t make sense, as this is not to select the best artist but encourage people doing art.
