I’ve decided to go with Blender for the next project or so, possibly Lightwave later. The thing thats put me off Messiah is the pricing’n’bundling. Hair this, render nodes that - why not just charge $500 for it and make it out-of-the-box?
Seriously, I’ve used Max & Maya - given a choice I would prefer to use Messiah for animation. PMG needs to cut the bullshit with the bundle thing and simply call it “Messiah”.
I’m not quite sure I understand your frustrations, Boone… I see it as a good thing that pmG offers its customers options. Those who have no need for hair/fur, multi-core, or unlimited render nodes don’t have to pay for features they’ll never use, while others who need it pay a very reasonable amount. Even if you purchase all the modules, messiah still is a killer deal.
Zimtower: Piracy bugs the crap out of me too, but I’ve no idea how pmG will manage to “solve that in the next release”. I don’t know of a software program that hasn’t been pirated, at least without DRM measures that do nothing but A) eat up valuable development time and B) create large hassles for all of us legitimate paying customers. I would rather see pmG’s limited resources put to use fixing bugs and adding new features.
I think the reason it works like this with messiah is that people can kinda pick and choose what they want a bit, although I’m not saying it’s definately the best way and other programs should do it this way, I don’t have a problem paying for the upgrades I need on different computers. Like I only pay for unlimited render nodes once, not for every seat.
Even totalled together… it’s quite cheap.
Well, this is the thing; Messiah is pretty much the first dedicated animation package in the same way Silo, Mudbox and Modo are low cost and complete modelling solutions. Messiah has a lot going for it, but I feel its in pieces - which in my opinion isnt good for a dedicated solution. Having to purchase and install extra pieces is unwanted hassle - especially on a time-critical job.
Put it this way; If I had to purchase, for Silo/mudbox/modo etc, extra modules just to make use of multiple cores and 64bit machines, UVmapping’n’texturing and sculpting - it would come across half-assed. And putting on their website “free module for a limited time only” seems very tacky. And as someone has pointed out, that seems to have been left on the site for a while now. If it really was at a cheap price to begin with - why the special deals? I would make it an all in one package and say “Messiah is a complete, powerful animation & rendering solution for a price that puts the competition to shame.” That sells better and it will come better recommended when pitted against other applications.
This is really what bothers me the most; is Messiah under good management? From what I can see Messiah doesnt seem to be in a stable situation. Granted, it is used in the industry, but so was Mirai and, despite being ahead of its time, the company that owned it didnt do much with it and its now gone. I get the feeling that Messiah is heading the same way.
I shall keep an eye on Messiah as I feel it has great potential, but I need to see that PMG are doing something with the package. A good start would be by having a version 3.0 demo…
I guess I just don’t understand the complaint.
Most see buying only what one WANTS as a PLUS. Those of us that want the extra two options apparently don’t seem to think that makes PMG or messiah look half-assed in any way. (Flipbook offers the same kind of ability to BUY only what you need, instead of forcing one to buy a full-blown app some might not need.
Since the cost is SO small for messiah compared to other packages, and it does so much more in a better way (my opinion), I still don’t understand the complaint about having to say, “yes I want the 64 bit…or unlimited render node license”.
Best,
Rick
Thats fair enough. We see the product from different perspectives and I am fine with that.
I see where you’re coming from and I can’t say that I blame you for speculating like you do, we always do with 3d programs, but I think it would be a shame for you to dismiss it because of the pricing decisions. I would say that the strong arm pmg lacks is definately PR. But… knowing that it’s strong in animation and rendering, and dear I say more so than blender and lightwave, especially in animation, it would be a shame to conclude that Messiah is going the same way as Mirai. I urge you to give it some further testing and have a look at some of it’s strengths and compare it to blender and lightwave for animation.
Sometimes though I don’t understand why they take the 6-8 months to update ANYTHING on their website. I mean I guess they know where they stand and they act accordingly but they honestly do not even try to things vibrant or attraction. Everything they recieved is always 3rd party effort - ie Ulven.
Considering the size of the organization, I cut them some slack. Even when pmg had 3 principals, they weren’t really much swifter at updates and keeping their website current.
I believe pmg is working with a skeleton crew (or more like a single bone)
I look forward to Fori’s next release.
another thing… why aren’t here any announcements to ongoing features?
So what is hair if it’s not dynamic in a “Animation Package”?
As I heard there is something to come, but why not an announcemnet?
But this is not just pmg… all the smaller companies including Newtek,Luxology are doing this most of the time instead of inform the users and take care of it’s people who pay for the software and support the industries.
Ok, it’s just software, but it’s also an investment on Software and Hardware.
Greets Tom
I agree that I wished I knew more about exactly what was coming. But then, based on past experience, I, and everyone else, will start clamoring for it NOW because it will be cool.
I am very happy with my investment in messiah, even when I paid much more than the current pricing.
Since they did such intensive work on the rendering end for the last release, I am “assuming” that there will be new and cool animation additions.
Believe me, I would LOVE to know now, and even have the new version now. I will be starting on a large personal production very soon. I would love to see and have all the new stuff, as it will probably be better or more efficient that how I might currently do it. That is another reason why I haven’t jumped whole hog into it yet…I am anxious to see what tools/processes might enable me to save time, as it is virtually a one man team for the animation.
So I am hopeful it is VERY soon!
Best,
Rick
There’s three reasons not to let people know too much ahead of time.
True Ulven. but any news is better then no news. I mean really anything. i mean Andrew from 3d-coat is a good example. one man and he is always updating its users on new features, or talking to its users. I would have bought into this program but there devopment seemed to slow or and even dead at one point.
Thing that turned me off from upgrading is charging $149 for the ability to use 64Bit and/or multicore. Multicore & 64Bit are becoming more common everyday.
Regards,
-D
I don’t know the official reason, but here’s my guess:
The additional costs for the 64-bit/multi-core and unlimited render nodes may have been established so that messiah:Studio Workstation or messiah:animate users wanting to upgrade to messiah 3 could do so for a low price ($189) while still appeasing all of the messiah:Studio Professional customers who paid considerably more for their licenses back in the day.
So even though the pricing choice may have been made to benefit users, I understand how some could feel a negative psychological effect (“I’m being nickled and dimed for a basic feature like 64-bit?”). For me, however, the math makes sense: messiah Studio 3’s base price is insanely low, and even if you pay for the two extra modules it’s still only $647. I don’t know any other 3d package that even comes close to that kind of value if you need to do serious character animation and rendering.
I discussed this with Fori earlier and he said the following (paraphrased):
“I need to keep a lower price option for those people that don’t need the extra stuff. Most people purchase the lower one especially with the world finance condition, and those people who are doing lots of professional work with it can add on 64bit/multicore and unlimited rendernode licenses if and when they need to”.
I think it’s fair to all. You get a high end animation toolkit for $399, and some extras to deal with things that you would only really encounter if you go beyond a certain usage type. If you are making a living on messiah, you can afford to put that extra bit in to the development pool. I think we’ll see more things bundled into that upgrade in the future so that people don’t feel ‘nickled and dimed’ by it.
COOOL! 'm really looking forward ot the “Dynamic Pan-Polygonal Reactive Illumination”
Great one Fred and toooo true!