Particle Flow Discussion


I am still on sub. and for the first time in 8 years with some apprehension :curious:


I’m not a Box #3 user but I’ve just let my subscription expire today, and since an upgrade costs £1830 (inc tax) which equals a staggering $2,892 whether it’s a single release cycle or a multiple release cycle, it’s going to be years until I upgrade again, if at all. Especially in light of the recent financial results from AD.

I’d had enough of being coerced into subscription, pestered into buying a 3-year subscription, poor support for new authorisation codes (4-5 days to get a code) before prices go up and then not getting anything that I didn’t already have particle-wise for my trouble.

The whole Creation Suite thing was just the straw that broke the camel’s back, even more so that recompiles for Box #2 didn’t arrive until well into the 2013 cycle.

I’m just going to wait for the dust to settle and then see if XBR was worth it.

It just seemed an apt time to actually tell them enough was enough.


That’s exactly my thoughts, with subscription costs going up next term it’s not worth it anymore if you only skip one release (and i skip at least 2 usually)…if it would be just for box3 it would mean it went from 500 bucks per single orbaz license to the price of almost a whole max license if you skipped one or two releases and using subscription just to keep the tool around not to mention you might need a suite subscription deal. not with me.


I now see why people are upset
As an equation you need 3dsMax13 + Box03 + Subscription
else you do not get to use Box 3.

This makes having Box 3 reliant on having the subscription,
and I can see why people are upset.


What most people are upset about is not only the separation that you mention but the teired approach to the baseline application.

This means if you don’t buy into the “Suite” you don’t get the full baseline product any more. So the Standalone version of Max is now different than the “Suite” version of Max.

Instead of using software that bridges the divides in a cross platform suite, ie things that transfer data seamlessly between applications, as the “suite subscription incentive” AD is using a single application specific product, ie Box#3, as the “suite subscription incentive” which by all methods of reason makes no f’king sense what-so-ever.


That concept got rolled back, right?


That is the current plan, Box#3 is still Suite exclusive. :rolleyes:

Yah makes sens huh, lets split max into more flavours; Max, Max Design, Max Suite, Max Design Suite, Max Render, Max FX, Max Model, Max Animate, Max Script… LOL I think we should have a different version of Max for everything!


The bit I don’t understand is box 3 is such a niche product, a lot of the particle guys here don’t even use it, so why make such a niche product the reason to go full suite. if the feature was some kind of interoperability or something more “general” that improved the workflow between each program then that would sure be a worth while upgrade, get mudbox/XSI and actually use them together nicely? But no, line in the sand, want this totally niche particle fx program? OK, buy my modelling package and another program similar to max with an arguably superior version of box 3 (ICE) and you can have it “free” ? Nice work! :banghead:


Hristo, for the sake of clarity, the original deal was only people on “Suite Subscription” would get Box#2 AND 3, everyone else, including Standalone Subscription holder simply got the two Cache Operators and nothing else AND this is the clincher, originally current license holder got absolutely nothing but screwed.

The “new” deal gives Standalone Subscription holder Box#2 plus the Cache operators only and current license holders can get box#23 recompiles to 2013 and the next version of max.

Box#3 is still Suite Exclusive, creating yet another “Tier of Max”

It is still not really anywhere near ideal but is better than it was.

irwit, that is exactly why so many people are upset. It only makes sense to an accountant and not of the user.

Most of us were under the impression that is was going to be a multi-year subscription benefit, it was what made the most sense to us the user. AD is segregating max yet again, into another set of users, the Standalone Users and the Suite Users. Loyalty gets you nothing, I have been a sub holder since they started doing subscription, now that isn’t good enough.

As we have all been stating elsewhere, if you want us to buy suites, create suites we will want to buy, but forcing us to buy shit we don’t need in order to get baseline product features is lame.


Well then it’s just that box3 gets bundled with the suite edition right? Could be better, but it’s no big deal really. If they could negotiate with the plugin devs and sell a max fx suite that gives you max, ffx, tp, box2/3, krakatoa, frost, vray and rayfire at a lower price - that would be useful :slight_smile:


it’s better train someone to use houdini than spend 10k on bunch of plugins and die trying to force everything to work together as one suite=)

but i like all these plugins too)


It is not just about Box#3! It is bigger than that.

It is about restricting baseline application features for exclusive use within a suite. So whats next, they add TP and the only way you get to use it is if you buy a suite full of products that you will never use? AND maintain through a more expensive yearly subscription?

Suite exclusive features should be application interop, conversion tools, utilities, things that work with and within the suite. Not single features for Max or Maya.

That is what it is about.


Don’t forget about phoenix , finalrender, VB modifier, Genome, Xmesh.
Rayfire can be excluded as not necessary.


I wonder how this move from autodesk affect on big studios that uses 3ds max. I mean it clearly shows how 3ds max will be in future and split up again in many choices. So those studios started to think of moving to houdini?


Houdini is not a program for quick jump.Many studios use cebas TP. So now tp will strong it positions in market that’s all.


You are overplaying it :slight_smile:


In other news the Freebies have finally been recompiled for 2013:

have fun!



I try to break this mug… I animated the spinrate but the particles keep spinning no matter what… how the hekk can I make the particles stop spinning?


Try adding a Go To Rotation test, when true, test out to a Stop event.

It will give you a little bit of ease in the stop.


Did you guys check out project sparta yet?

Sparta is the world’s first sculpting app for the particle By the level of single particle in one frame
Sparta can perfectly control a grain of particle, because we adopted the pen interface for GUI. Even you can create the animation like a stop motion film. Simply put, Sparta aims to ZBrush for the particle animation :smiley: Sparta release you from the programing
The node base system and expression are really flexible technology, but it not the technology for the artist. We perfectly replace this technology to the pen interface.