Nothing you can’t accomplish using lightwave? Could make an extensive list of things you can’t but why bother it’s been done before.
You’re right though for the most part, what you can do in one you can probably do in the other, the key factor you’re missing though is the amount of work it takes to do it in one compared to the other. If i can do the same thing in XSI in 2 hours that takes lightwave 4 hours, or even 2.5 hours, then that alone is reason enough to switch, or at the very least add it to your toolset. My biggest beef with lightwave is the amount of workarounds i have to do, i’m always fighting the program. The lack of edges is one huge reason for this.
Besides being fluent in more than one app does nothing but make you more attractive to potential employers and i guarantee that with this price drop alot of places are now going to be looking for people to work on XSI.
I’m not saying it’s not worh that price but you seriously don’t expect that this It IS FULL version :). If Foundtion XSI is soo good who would then buy Essentials or even Advanced :). C’mon guys don’t push it soo much. It’s LITE version and the fact that misses several big things from advancet supports that. I agrre that it’s great for price it offers but full sure IS NOT :). Whoever think it is worth price go and buy but please don’t go in flame war here. We will see how good is when pople start to use it. If you think you can pay every upgrade and that you won’t need any support which is an extra cost obviously then great, lucky for you (i don’t mean just for you yog).
You all make valid points but I think something important is being overlooked. Softimage Essentials is now $1995. They have just jumped squarely into the Lightwave price area with that pricing. That is what I would think is of more concern to NT than $495 for the Foundation version.
Lightwave has always been able to claim the province of being the only sub $2000 professional app for a long time. Maya came into that area and Cinema 4D jumped in too. Now Softimage has something that is doing the same and they have to be feeling the pinch (or they will be). Competition is healthy but there can be only so many in the 3D market. There are going to be only so many people using the various programs and one of NT’s strongest selling points continues to be erroded by the competition.
How NT chooses to combat this will be interesting to see.
I must admit, I was very close to buying XSi edu version a few months ago, only to learn it to have a better knowledge of it, the Foundation was too expensive. Luckily Softimage came up with their terrific deal, so for the price of the edu version I now have the Found. version. :bounce:
And what’s even cooler, I bought it today, could download and use it directly and only have to wait for dongle and dvd’s.
I’m surely going to use LW for some time as XSI is soooo complex at first. And with DFX+ I think I can be pretty happy now.
I sincerely hope that NT will not give up and very soon provide us with great point updates, so I can start actually using LW8 without fear … in combination with XSI of course
Nice comparison but now i’m sure that’s not for me :(. From that BRIEF list of comparison Foundation mises 15 things that Advanced has and that’s only brief list :(.
BTW one thing that bring my attention mostly is absence of "Texture Layer Editor"
can someone confirm what is that in reality ? I suppose that material library have some presets but if i can’t use any procedurals or “edit textures” how’s that working in XSI Fund then ? Must be some different “thing/tool” where you edit procedurals ?
The only “big” things imo that are missing from the $495 version are the ScriptedOperators, Advanced Rig guides and the Rigid Body dynamics but…not having a pre built rig doesnt really bother me with XSI rigging tools, and ScriptedOperators…well, i never had them and if i really need those and the Rigid Bodies… there´s the 2K version that is also a great bang for the buck
NT has been very quiet after LW8, lets see what they have in store for us. They really need to get something great and efficient coming out soon.
Texture Layer Editor is the new texture editor that comes with Essentials and Advanced for version 4. The standard node based material editor is still there. Having used the two I actually prefer the standard node based option, I couldn’t even begin to explain how advanced and flexible compared to to LW’s material editor; instanced material nodes, being able to use the legnth of a ray through a material as a data input, material overrides (think different effects for different light set ups without losing the original material), gradient inputs for everything, the list is all but endless.
I think that the very low price has an unexpected side effect, people automatically think it most be severly crippled in some way, but it just isn’t the case
Don’t worry, this isn’t a rant. I’ve used both programs, Lightwave proffessionally for over seven years, and I am very comfortable (and calm) with my desision to integrate XSI-Foundation into my pipeline . I say integrate, but in reality LW is now just there just in case.
I just placed my order for Foundation. This deal is simply an opportunity that can’t be missed!
I plan to use both LW and XSI. I’ve used XSI EXP a bit and I must admit the workflow is nicer but there is quite a bit of a learning curve involved. LW, because of it’s modeling tools (still need edges tho’!) will always have a place in my CG work. Besides, owning XSI has always been a dream of mine (mainly for bragging rights amongst friends) but now it’s a reality. And the training DVD’s thrown in is a deal in itself.
I think I am pretty objective here I have used LW for years and also own XSI Advanced. I fully intend to keep using LW alongside XSI, so nothing I am saying is a flame against LW or Newtek.
I am still in the learning phase of some of the basic features of XSI, but I am absolutely blown away by what the app can do. What i am most impressed with, though, is not its abundance of features, but the fact that the program is SOLID to the core in its workflow, integration of features and how accessable its features are. The features that are lacking in FOUNDATION in no way make it a LITE version of anything.The features that ADVANCED has are things that most of us use only from time to time. It happens that in positioning the product, just as with MAYA, the company understands that certain users will be willing to pay significantly more if they need those few features. What I am saying is that for the most part, on a day to day basis, FOUNDATION will give you almost everything ADVANCED would. Just my perspective.
BTW, I am a big fan of your work. Your stuff is a great example of what can be accomplished with Lightwave.
I’m happy that you like your XSI but lets not mix apples now :). You own ADVANCED and that’s another sotry and i wouldn’t mind owning that version but 7K US$ is no way in my price range :). I’ll wait for another price drop when Advanced comes under 5K
I for instance like to have ability to render grass (used in several Architcture project) and yet it can’t be done in Foundation - just one example.
I saw several apps and so far i didn’t find better/faster tool than LW modeler for modeling (but i agree that we need edges but i’m sure we will get them soon ;)). Especailly since i’m using my Logitech MX500/510 wiht 8 programmable keys so i even don’t click any buttons in modeler window. I have assigned mouse buttons to “drop tool” “deselect all”, and three views “wire textured” “textured” and “wireframes”. It’s hard to explain that, you should see it to belive. Modeling with those keeys attached to mouse and using shortcuts is something like “speedy gonzales” (i’m not sure did you watched that cartoon :)), Heck IF I’m not mistaken XSI 4.0 just got KNIFE tool like in LW and they wanted it for long time. Yet it’s so simple tool in LW that I wouldn’t even belive that any program don’t have such tool ?
BTW Thanks for compliments on my work.
Like i said erlyer - whoever like it go and buy noboody is saying that’s not worth that price :). I’ll just skip this time since for me it’s not worth that price 'because i would too much suffer for not having some options from advanced and i would make another move to upgrade to bigger and my wife then would go crazy and said “not again” ;).
I guess what I’m saying is that the features you give up with Foundation are not the bread and butter features you use every day. The similarities in the versions are MUCH deeper than the differences.
If you need grass or hair, you’re right . . . Foundation forces you to do a workaround. However, if not for Worley, how would you handle those things in Lightwave? XSI has been a high priced niche product for a long time and as such has not had the user base and therefore, developer support that Lightwave has. However, I would not be at all surprised to see hair or dynamics plug ins being released for Foundation before long given the distribution that the product appears to be verging on.
As for the knife tool, you’re right. Not until ver 4 did XSI have it. I could list several things that fall into that category. Even Advanced for $7K does not have the equivalent of LW’s hypervoxels. That’s why we use miltiple apps, no?
What exactly does XSI Foundation offer me for $495 that I don’t alrteady have in Lightwave?
I spent a couple of hours playing with the XSI demo, and I know it takes a while to learn something like this app. But, just the way you select things, move or rotate them, etc…
seems a lot less intuitive than in Lightwave.
Lightwave modeler is regarded as one of the best and I don’t expect XSI Foundation to be better than LW there. So , would it be at least easier for me to rig a character and animate him in XSI Foundation, than it is in Lightwave? Would you say XSI is better when it comes to character animation?
How easy is it to import motion capture data , apply it to the bones and have your character
do the animation? Is it possible at all ? ( I’d prefer it this way, rather than animating from scratch.)
How i would solve grass in LW you ask ? Simply with BUILT IN saslite. Works prety fine for grass :).
I Agrre that sometime it’s needed to use multiple apps but as someone earlyer mention that he can make anything in LW so no need for multy apps. But if you don’t have TOOL for doing it in that app then you need another one but in my eyes LW with his current price is ready to roll out of box. Sure some workarounds would still be neded (which app don’t have them?) but it CAN do all. If you dont have rigid bodys inside then you don’t have and you can’t do workaround and so on - same thing with grass…
I see people laughtet guy who said he can do whatever he need with LW but that’s true for me also, I use LW from version 3.5 and till today i didn’t find any task it can’t do and i needed ? I work in TV station for 9 years now and it still fits all my needs very well :).
Like i said this thread becomed APP flame war (IMHO) and guys constantly trying to show that they did “right thing” by buying another app - no matter if they need it acctualy - it’s cheap and they bought it (i see in my mind those TOTAL SALE signs - 50% off :)). Like someone want’s to “explain” to community how they spent money well :). I personaly don’t care how anyone spend his money so i also don’t see any point of that thread in LW forums? Same guy posted fist post did it in Cinema forum also. We all can click on front page and see price drop. Also so i really don’t see point of putting it in all APP forums ?
cheers guys and be well with your XSI’s, LWs, Cinems, Mayas and MAXs. GO and do some constructive on your new apps - i can’t right now since i’m working and having to omuch free time on my job ;).
I idn’t try it yet, just bought XSI today, but if you have a look under the stuff link at this sight http://animus.brinkster.net/index.html you’ll find a hair plugin for XSI and also a great dirtmap shader.
BTW, the passes features are totally great in XSI, unfortunatly NT didn’t even correct or enhanc the psd export in LW8 nor did they bother to add a special fileformat for DFX+ that takes care of the passes. Usability is key.
hmm i as im like many in this thread jumped onto xsi learning i was impressed and was sold even more when i attended a launch party in ny…the app is simply amazing especailly coming from a lw base work flow…
They are many things modelling wise lightwave seem to move faster but overalll easyness i gave to xsi …i still however plan to use both apps.
The foundation is a very good price
Advance however is still the real deal with the amount if things you can do in the app solo it self but none of the other versions are crippled so i would not over look them
Anybody knows if you can upgrade to the essential version after buying the foundation, by just paying the difference $1995 - $495 = $1500 , or do you still have to pay the full price to get the the essential version?
Still waiting for somebody to tell me what exactly XSI foundation has, that lightwave doesn’t.