OSX 10.6.3 Open GL is freeking out again...


#1

I have been working on this project for the last 2-3 weeks in Maya 2010 on my Mac under 10.6.2

This mourning i did a system update getting ready for the iPad, and now my GRAPH editor in MAYA is freaking out like with the ripping an tearing effect.

2 steps forward and one step back! I hope that Maya 2011 with the QT interface solves this. I know its a Apple / Nvidia driver issues but this is REALLY messed up.


#2

report a bug. Apple is very good about getting on this stuff. Obviously Autodesk doesn’t test “old” software - they just test the software they are working on. 2011 works fine in 10.6.3 though.

https://bugreport.apple.com


#3

Thats good to hear Maya 2011 has those bugs fixed. I re-booted (from a 2nd hard drive) temporary back into 10.5 since it doesn’t have as many display issues. I’m looking forward to using Maya 2011.


#4

ya, the Qt change seems to fix a lot.


#5

Hey cgbeige do you have a dual monitor setup while using 2011 and 10.6.3? I think the issue with the graph editor only occurs on systems with dual monitors. My Macbook Pro is fine using 10.6.3 and 2010, but my Mac Pro with two monitors has the graph editor issue. Just curious if 2011 is really a fix.

Thanks
Grim


#6

ya, I tested it when I saw this thread and it works fine on dual screens. I’ve worked extensively with two screens in Maya 2011 but never use the Graph Editor much since I don’t do animation. But it works fine - no glitches like I’m seeing in 2010 (with Radeon 4870). All this glitchy behaviour is really just do to the crappy GUI kit they used before. It’s a real touchy mess on OS X.


#7

I am using 10.6.3 on a 8 core 3.2ghz Mac Pro 10gigs of ram, with a Geforce 8800 on a apple 30’ Cinema display. Curve editer in a split view is unusable. so far in a floating window it works for now.


#8

So Maya 2011 will not suffer from this problem?. But that doesn’t help me tonight with my 9am deadline. This is a HUGE step backwards.

  • Graph editor completely messed up again (like in 10.6.0)
  • Main viewpoint incorrectly delaying objects and selections
  • drag selection draws multiple images on the rect on screen
  • The UI is not updating values,until you click in the viewport

This is a MAJOR screw up in the drivers. But i can sync my iPad now so maybe my clients will except my excuse that this new MAGICAL DEVICE killed there project.

SO is there any way to roll back JUST the graphic drivers?

So I called Apple tech support, there is NO WAY TO ROLLBACK THE GRAPHICS DRIVERS. Here are the 2 suggestions i was given:

  1. “Contact the Maya developer to see if they have an update, or driver, for Maya that may fix THERE incompatibility with 10.6.3”

  2. “Re-install Snow Leopard on the system, Migrate your data from your TimeMachine to the fresh install, and update back up to 10.6.2. That should only take you 45 minutes.”

Option 1 is as RIDICULOUS, as option 2 is OPTIMISTIC.

This situation is so fundamentally wrong on so many levels that i am fuming!


#9

I don’t think AD put much effort into fixing issues for 10.6 since they knew QT was going to solve many of their display issues. I would recommend to either get back into 10.6.2 or go back to 10.5 for a few weeks. Unless you have another backup of some kind that you can restore from, the only way I know to do this is to re-install the OS and barestore from Timemachine.

Considering this is a work computer, you might want to take the paranoid route when doing upgrades (especially during tight deadlines) and periodically create a clone of your boot drive to a firewire or 2nd hard drive using SuperDuper. If something happens to your boot drive you can boot up into the 2nd hard drive or re-mirror it back over to roll a hard drive back to a usable state. Its being extra cautious, but it would give you some more options in situations like this. Here are some links that might be useful.


#10

I know at the end of the day, I am the one the hit the button and did the update. Shame on me.

But this driver issue is so fundamental considering everything we went through with these drivers in Snow leopard already.

“Dont worry, the next version thats comming out in 2 weeks will solve that.” leaves a bad teast in my mouth. AGAIN we will be in a situation to be FORCED to upgrade to a new version of our 3d app in the MIDDLE OF A PROJECT!??! that seams like another recipe for disaster.

Once i get my iPad and Maya 2011, everything will work great!


#11

Honestly - it’s Autodesk’s fault, not Apple’s. When you’re a developer and you see an OS revision coming that has clearly stated “OpenGL updates coming” in the Apple Developer web site for months (I’m on ADC), it’s your responsibility to test and bug report - not Apple’s. They can’t run around testing every program for developers. They would fix any issues that were caused but I can guarantee that AD didn’t report any because everyone there is losing their minds trying to finish 2011.

The problem is that you have too much faith in Autodesk - not Apple. 10.6 would never have broken Maya the same way if Autodesk took the same precautions every $2 shareware developer takes. But their existing workers are spread too thin so here we are.


#12

I tried to look, but the actual release date for 2011 is an ambiguous April? If so looks like I get to spend the night archive and installing.

Grim


#14

Now that i did meet my deadline and i am a little less fired up, let my state my OPINION of this OSX 10.6.3 situation.

Apples relesse of 10.6 was a Big overhall for the mac. In it they tweaked the drives for OpenGL. Allot of noise was made about it, and some time later 10.6.2 fixed those issues. The problems where across many 3d apps, so Maya was not the only victim. But I personally ran 10.6.2 on my systems and Maya ran like a champ.

So now we have 10.6.3. and it would APPEAR that alot of the OPENGL issuses have returned. Maya did not change. The OS did. So I am asking, WHY THE CHANGE? and i have a bad feeling about the answer. THIS IS PURELY MY SPECULATION:

2 days befor a huge release of a new product, The software team is under the gun to get the new system update out. In the frantic heat of testing, they did not see that some how, and old set of graphic drivers where bundled into the Update. The last few rounds of testing was FOR SURE looking at the iPad compatibility and functionality. no one caught it because the PRESSER WAS SO HIGH for the iPAD. WE have all be there, and we know it happens. I hope that it comes to light that Apple has made MASSIVE upgreades to the OPENGL that brought back this long suffering issue. But i fear it was just a mistake.

I don’t think its right persecuting Autodesk for an Apple release. I am personally looking very forward to Maya 2011. I hope this is a strong foundation for bigger and better things in the Maya development cycles yet to come.

Client happy, rant complete, now i must sleep


#15

You do realize that 10.6 had nothing to do with us when the OpenGL stuff broke right?

That’s my point. These problems would be avoided if AD tested their software and simply said “you broke our stuff” to Apple. If you can tell me that you tested 10.6.3 internally before it was released, then I owe you an apology. But asking some schlep at Apple to open the Graph Editor five times a week - that’s not going to happen.


#17

er - you’re supposed to test against the OS X betas, not the release so that customers consistently have working products and you don’t end up needing rollbacks like this. Isn’t that the point of having an Apple developer program? To keep the OS and the products in sync? It would be a pretty awful software universe if everyone waited for release OS software to test their expensive, mission-critical products - customers would be constantly be running the risk of having broken software, which sounds familiar here. Why do we pay $3500 to be the beta testers? We’re not talking about testing 90 different beta distros of Linux - we’re talking about ONE release on a very limited set of hardware and one OpenGL implementation.

Like I said - this would be common knowledge for any shareware company trying to keep their customers happy but somehow, with Maya, it’s too much to ask.

I get the emails saying “new OS X build and OpenGL changes” - do your people not get those or do they just think “motif’s toooooooootally not going break this time”? I know Tim tested 2011 against the 10.6.3 betas so why is this any different?


#18

for anyone affected by this, there’s apparently a workaround (from xlr8yourmac):

"Subject: Maya 2010 running on 10.6.3 workaround for glitchy windows
Hi Mike, I’m running Maya 2010 on a Mac Pro with a GeForce 8800 GT card. I have the same problems as other users when running maya. (re: yesterday’s post on Maya 2009/2010 issues w/10.6.3)
What I found fixes them is if you boot Maya from the OpenGL profiler (Developers tool application) and click the “Use custom pixel format” checkbox. Click the “Edit” button next to it and in the new window that pops up, double click “kCGLPFABackingStore” and under the “Value” change it to a “1”. Now you can press the Launch button in the main OpenGL Profiler window and Maya should be working OK. It’ll behave the way it did before the update to 10.6.3. Hope this helps!
Regards, Chris


#19

Is the OpenGL Profiler available to us mortals?


#20

just install the dev tools - it’s on the OS X install CD in Extras. Or grab it from Apple’s web site. It’s free.