OpenCL and openGL support will be deprecated in OSX 10.14


#1

So what does this mean for C4D on OSX? Metal is nor openSource nor crossplatform. I think this is bad news for C4D, but maybe I’m just wrong.

Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL Apps built using OpenGL and OpenCL will continue to run in macOS 10.14, but these legacy technologies are deprecated in
macOS 10.14. Games and graphics-intensive apps that use OpenGL should
now adopt Metal. Similarly, apps that use OpenCL for computational tasks
should now adopt Metal and Metal Performance Shaders.

https://developer.apple.com/macos/whats-new/#deprecationofopenglandopencl
odo


#2

I’ve no idea if this is good or bad. But it certainly seems odd given that Apple is supposed to be supporting pro users with a new machine and then deprecates two major libraries on which lots of pro apps are based (although OpenCL probably not so much).

I’d need a seasoned programmer to explain the pros and cons of the decision. Maybe switching to Metal is both easy and efficient
Either way I’m sure Maxon’s developers are up to the task.


#3

So does it mean no CUDA, no OpenCL, no OpenGL, no Vulkan and (obviously) no DirectX on Mac?

GPU graphics and compute suddenly became even more complicated than it was already for Apple users.

It seems a presomptuous move on their part, especially for the pro side of things.

Can metal really outdo all of those and in a way that is easy enough that developpers will actually bother (I mean for cross platform apps. I suppose Mac only will not be affected)?


#4

if apple droped suport for opengl and opencl tomorrow the yes it would be a problem. but we have a very good working relationship with apple and everything will be fine.
apple users already have the option to use prorender using metal if they so wish


#5

It will make it harder for us to maintain feature parity between OS X and Windows, but other than that, what the glenster said.


#6

Marmoset Toolbag already switched to Metal for their real time engine, and Otoy, the makers of Octane, are porting Octane to metal. According to Otoy, performance on nVidia hardware on Macs under metal or Cuda is basically the same. The upside being someone like me can just buy a supported AMD GPU and not worry about installing scripts and getting into the terminal to work with an Nvidia card on an eGPU.

It’s frustrating, sure. But under metal, I’m getting more options on the Mac than I had before.


#7

I may be oversimplifying (or just plain wrong!) but I liken this to what happened when Apple dropped flash support. Hopefully it will be the right move in the long run. We Apple users will try to look at the bright side no matter what :slight_smile:


#8

Well, they dropped flash which was proprietary for html5 which was open.

Here it’s the other way around, they’re dropping the open standard, despite being officialy listed as a promoter of Khronos group.

This looks more like getting rid of the universal mini jack to push their own blutooth airpods/earbuds.


#9

Well, CUDA is proprietary and everybody seems happy. I do prefer open standard too as long as they do their job, OpenCL has worked well for me for years but some stuff like VrayRT never worked because of the technical limitation, maybe this move will fix those limitation. Time will tell, in the mean while OpenCL won’t disappear in a few days so users should be covered for a couple years or more depending on their OS.


#10

This is not that big a deal, and the writing has been on the wall for a while. Unfortunately, Apple has not updated their OpenGL implementation for years, and OpenCL never really took off.

Now they’ve made it official, and these APIs are deprecated. This does not mean dropped: they will continue to exist in the OS for a while (two more versions, probably), but they will only receive security or bug fix updates.

Most developers who have made the shift to working with Metal prefer it to OpenGL: it is easier to develop for, faster, and compares well to Vulkan and D3D12 in terms of features.

I can see that many would be frustrated by this, but their play with Metal is much bigger than just a 3D API: they are implementing their machine learning tools as Metal shaders, and this is opening up whole new simplified approaches to employing AI and machine learning for developers. Metal becomes the gateway to a whole array of ways to leverage the GPU. As already mentioned, OTOY is implementing Octane on top of Metal.


#11

To clarify: OpenCL and OpenGL will continue to exist in MacOS for (probably) several years, just with no feature updates. This announcement has no implication for CUDA, and CUDA will continue on MacOS for as long as NVidia supports it. Vulkan is available on MacOS (and iOS) via the MoltenVK, and outperforms OpenGL. MoltenVK is built on Metal. DirectX is of course, proprietary to Windows.


#12

I wonder if Cycles 4d will go CUDA only on Mac.


#13

Ok thanks all, I’m now a bit less worried. Glad to hear C4D will not suffer from this decision. I wonder if this will have any relation to the 2019 Mac Pro. Are they maybe building their own Metal-GPU’s to create the best possible connection between hard- and software?

odo


#14

Unless Metal can do something really amazing and new, it likely means that far fewer 3D PC software and tools will be ported to Mac in the future.

This is what you get when you let a terrible company like Apple lock you into their walled-garden system.

Microsoft is just as terrible as a company, but at least just about every software has a version for Windows.


#15

A month or two I hypothesized the next Mac Pro might have a custom chip or two on it. I was thinking it would be for Metal acceleration. I’m just spit-balling so…who knows. Could merely work w/AMD GPUs.


#16

What Woolridge said.

This is a bigger problem for game makers in general but I don’t have any concerns about Adobe and MAXON specifically (or Affinity), especially given MAXON’s comments in this thread (thanks Glen and Srek). I think for plugin makers it might take an extra cycle to move their OpenCL stuff to Metal (i.e. we probably won’t see it this fall if their release cycles happen to be this fall), but for anyone who is already doing hybrid OpenCL / Metal as an option for Mac users, they’re just going to go all-in on Metal. Black Magic is another one.

This is arguably a typical “arrogant Apple” move, once again dropping an API they used to tout all the time (OpenCL) but never did much with, for a “shiny new” API. But I believe Apple is more serious this time around about Metal given their plans with eGPU, and potentially their own GPUs down the road. Interesting times. But yeah I’d be pissed if I were a game developer.


#17

This is interesting:
https://twitter.com/otoy/status/1004163331463118849?s=21
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1425897https://www.reddit.com/r/Cinema4D/comments/6pkzav/a_letter_from_apple_regarding_gpu_rendering/


#18

The blender devs did not react positively to the deprecation of Open GL.

With all the amazing work they are doing on their evee engine, I wonder if blender Mac users will be forced to boot into windows to stay current with this incredible, real time viewport/renderer? The latest updates are impressive. I feel like Cinema 4d is part way there and I would KILL to see this level of quality from the C4d viewport! Of course I’d have to get a lot better to approach this quality, but I’m working towards that goal. :wink:

//youtu.be/nxrwx7nmS5A


#19

This is one of the most immediately visible areas of negative impact for creatives, long-term anyway. Blender 2.8 and 3.0 will probably still work on macOS for a while because it will be at least 2-3 years before they actually remove support (different from deprecating it). And they’ve haven’t touched their OpenGL implementation in years anyway so it doesn’t matter in that stretch. But long term either someone has to make MoltenGL support something other than OpenGL ES or Blender will become a PC only application. Unless they get a Metal programmer in the Blender org, which is always possible. WIll depend on demand and the amount of noise made I guess.

Also that ^^ video is flippin’ amazing.


#20

Yup. I’m holding out hope that Maxon does something similar. That quality is enough for my needs.