Open Figure Drawing Workshop with Ron Eyre, Hong Ly and Rebeccak 011


#425

Glenn, :slight_smile:

I think that the OFDWs are, as you say, evolving, and I have thought a lot lately about how to structure them such that there is more emphasis on creative composition / etc. ~ how to create a new Workshop where the focus is on creating personal work.

I have reservations about this, however, for a few reasons.

Chief among them is that the original intent and purpose behind creating the OFDWs is to address the need for artists in our community to increase their observational skills ~ there are many beginners in particular who take as their starting point manga, comic books, and current digital art as their starting / reference points with respect to figurative art. As a result, I see many people making the same mistakes in their drawings repeatedly, and the OFDWs are incredibly successful to me because it puts artists back in the mindset of working from what the figure really looks like, vs. a cartoon / stylized representation of it.

While some have taken their work here in the OFDWs beyond the call of duty and created their own finished artwork with it ~ which I think is fantastic! ~ that is not actually the purpose behind these Workshops as they are now. The purpose is really to help artists increase their observational skills, and as such, yes, many pieces will closely follow the photographs ~ in a big way, that’s the point here.

What I think you and Ronnie are rightly picking up on is the fact that there needs to be another outlet here for the development of personal work / work that may use Reference as a starting, but not necessarily an ending point.

Having said that, however, I think that too often, beginners hear the oft batted about phrases, ā€œYou must learn to draw from your imaginationā€ and ā€œYou must draw from life / without Referenceā€, and think that they must do that automatically! This borders to me on the ridiculous, because how can anyone draw from imagination if that imagination is not stocked from either drawing on a regular basis from life and / or from Reference?

As such, these Workshops must be taken for what they are ~ incredible opportunities for artists from everywhere to work together to improve their observational and technical skills. :slight_smile: As I say, these Workshops can always evolve, with the potential to move towards an offspin Workshop where people create their own pieces, with or without Reference. However, I am not a fan of work in which people proudly proclaim that they have used no Reference, when the work could have greatly benefitted from the employment of such.

I hope that makes sense! :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak


#426

Rebecca…LOL !! :slight_smile:
I don’t disagree with any of the points you just mentioned, they all sound true and corect
to me…Norman Rockwell comes to mind, …he couldn’t compete with the camera, so he used it to his advantage, in a big way,…even Michelanglo used references, and just took them further
with his vision or imagination.
I think it is good to stir the pot once in a while, keeps the stew from getting stagnent,and
new ideas usully come from it… :slight_smile:
Like I told you earlier, if I cross any line you think I shouldn’t, then by all means just tell
me to shut up and get back to work. LOL !!:slight_smile: …MRS SPIRIT DREAMER does it all the time
and I haven’t died from it …YET…:scream:
TAKE CARE…TEACHER
Glenn


#427

Glenn,

Are you trying to give me gray hair? :scream:

By no means should I ever come across as sounding like I’m saying anything remotely like ā€˜shut up and get back to work’ :scream: ~ that wasn’t my point at all. Ah well, you’ve succeeded in stirring the pot…heh…:wink:

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rk


#428

Hi…Rebecca…:slight_smile: :bounce:

TAKE CARE
Glenn


#429

As such, these Workshops must be taken for what they are ~ incredible opportunities for artists from everywhere to work together to improve their observational and technical skills. :slight_smile: As I say, these Workshops can always evolve, with the potential to move towards an offspin Workshop where people create their own pieces, with or without Reference. However, I am not a fan of work in which people proudly proclaim that they have used no Reference, when the work could have greatly benefitted from the employment of such.

I hope that makes sense! :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak[/QUOTE]

Hi, Rebecca. I hope you don’t feel that I’ve been upsetting the apple cart a bit here expressing my own personal views and observations. I am with you 100% when you talk of observational and technical skills. Your workshops provide the perfect platform for doing just this. Purely imaginative work without any reference to close observation to real life is of little value, and is certainly of no interest to me. I applaud you with your endeavours here!

Ronnie.


#430

Ronnie,

No worries, :wink: ~

BTW, I forgot to mention, congrats on getting your tablet! I think it’s cool that you’re willing to try something new ~ and I hope your purchase will mean that you’ll be participating more often as an artist with us! :slight_smile:

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak


#431

Rebecca: have a look here: http://www.wga.hu
-TL


#432

tizianoadmirer,

Perfect! Thanks! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak


#433

LOL! We’ll see! :smiley: I don’t know how long it will take to arrive here, but it will take me a while to get used to it.

Cheers, Ronnie.


#434

Hi again all… another update!

Before I do add the update, IĀ’d just like to say I think there is actually tremendous good in copying photos like for like. I try to use imagination in all I do, but most of what IĀ’ve done with this piece is underpinned with some banked knowledge that comes from lots of straght copies from photos, masters and anatomy books and hundreds and hundreds of gesture drawings in my case! Its only through doing these studies that I think you get any better at being able to do the stuff straight from the top of your head. IĀ’ve still a lot to learn, and copying from photos and other esources is certainly one of the best ways, especially to those who donĀ’t have live resources anywhere nearby! If it wasnĀ’t for these drawing workshops and the advice on offer here, IĀ’d be a lot further behind than I am. ItĀ’s only very recently that IĀ’ve realise that in order to create something you really have to understand it, as daft as that sounds. Until now, I made the daft presumption that these people who can do it effortlessly were just uber talented, but theyĀ’re not, they just worked harder for it, and they have doubtless copied straight from photos too!

Right… IĀ’ll hop off my soapbox now. I put the piece up for review on my Deviant gallery, and got some really good advice there too, so hereĀ’s an update. IĀ’ve tried to make the mask somewhere between solid and ethereal, and worked some more on her body. I also changed the outstretched hand to give it more expression and to make it clear she wants the dove to land on her hand. Also got rid of the hair, as it was leading the eye out of the picture, and gave her more of an insubstantial Ā‘crestĀ’ which fits more with the whole bird spirit idea, and pulled the brighter colours (which IĀ’m hoping pull the viewer immediately to her head) down into the wings, to give the impression that the hair crest and wings are all part of the same etheral substance. I’m toying with the idea of maybe putting in a couple more larger doves, as I’m taken with the idea of them flapping around her, but don’t know whether this will busy up the composition too much. I’ve not decided whether to put her eye in yet either… so much to do! :argh: Thoughts on progress are muchly appreciated.

Oh, and Ron, once you get used to it, you should love the tablet… I bought the exact same one just after Christmas, and haven’t looked back. It comes with a couple of different textured nibs too, so you can have it feel more like a pencil, and put paper over the tablet surface too. enthuses greatly about wacom tablets


#435

Originally posted by Zepyhri: IĀ’d just like to say I think there is actually tremendous good in copying photos like for like. I try to use imagination in all I do, but most of what IĀ’ve done with this piece is underpinned with some banked knowledge that comes from lots of straght copies from photos, masters and anatomy books and hundreds and hundreds of gesture drawings in my case! Its only through doing these studies that I think you get any better at being able to do the stuff straight from the top of your head. IĀ’ve still a lot to learn, and copying from photos and other esources is certainly one of the best ways, especially to those who donĀ’t have live resources anywhere nearby! If it wasnĀ’t for these drawing workshops and the advice on offer here, IĀ’d be a lot further behind than I am. ItĀ’s only very recently that IĀ’ve realise that in order to create something you really have to understand it, as daft as that sounds. Until now, I made the daft presumption that these people who can do it effortlessly were just uber talented, but theyĀ’re not, they just worked harder for it, and they have doubtless copied straight from photos too!

Hear hear! :slight_smile: It’s also the case that many people can’t afford live Workshops. Heck, I can’t! I cannot dish out the $20-25 per session that just one Workshop costs ~ especially not with the amount of drawing and painting practice that is required to acquire and maintain one’s skill level. I copied master drawings for years for just this reason ~ outside of a school environment, I did not have access to live models, and though I am thankful for having had the luxury of working from wonderful live models in school, once I graduated, I actually found it tremendously helpful to work from Master Works instead ~ and this was before I was aware of the tremendous online art communities that exist! So, I certainly count this and similar Workshops as an advance for all artists, who no longer have to labor alone ~ and unnoticed ~ but rather have the opportunity not only to practice their skills far into the future, for free, but also have the chance to get recognition and to interact with artists from everywhere ~ to me, there’s nothing that you can lose in seizing such an opportunity! :slight_smile:

Oh, and while I only managed to sneak a tiny look at your work, Zepyhri, I did notice that it looks fantastic! :thumbsup:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak


#436

mystikaal,

My apologies, I’ve only just now seen your post! Welcome aboard, and I’m thrilled that seeing Zephyri’s work has brought you on board! I hope you will contribute your artwork as well, and hope that you find the Anatomy Forum useful. :slight_smile:

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak


#437

Zepyhri …WOW !!

This is turning into one of the most BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL paintings that I have ever seen
seriously.
Has the colors of a sacred bird in New Guine or one of those places.
It’s called COCK OF THE ROCK…see if you can find a picture of one. It came to mind, the
minute I saw your painting this morning. Might help you in some way to see one.
What you did with the hand is great,…gives it that uplift motion, almost like a birds wing
in flight…nice touch…love that glass like beak also…BEAUTIFUL…
I like your idea for another big bird…maybe flying up towards her, from the lower left section
or corner of the painting …might add to motion, and lead veiwer back into painting, and up
to main figure…if done right, it will add to paintings composition…open V shape, leads the
eye upward …shape of birds wings in flight…might use to your advantage with bird in
lower left corner…just a thought, that might help you, if you go for more birds.
Really brightend up my day, just seeing this painting …THANK YOU …:slight_smile:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Rebecca…The stew is starting to smell pretty good to me, in fact it smells so good, that
it’s makeing me hungry…stir every half hour, and let simmer…LOL…:wink:
TAKE CARE and :slight_smile:
Glenn


#438

Thank you for the great feedback on this piece, Glenn, your suggestions do nothing but improve the piece!

Another small update, small due to the fact I was savaged by a persian cat, which embedded both its teeth and claws in my right wrist, after it approached me for a fuss. Me being the cat lover, and at a loss as to what else to do, had to endure 30 seconds of wild cat spitting, biting and clawing until it let go and ran off leaving rather nasty claw ad teeth punctures all over my arm. And now my hand has somewhat seized up. :argh:

Still… managed to implement a few more changed, mostly in the positioning of doves and the like. I’m hoping this completes the composition issues, and I’ve been playing around with floating feathers on the woman, only to decide none of them worked.


#439

Hi …Zepyhri…

You better get yourself to a doctor …right away…for those punture wounds…
Cats have a little grove on the backside of each fang…grove runs the whole
length of each fang…each grove is packed full of bateria…like getting
bit by a poisonious snake almost…bacteria gets trapped in the punture.
Hand and arm will swell…bacteria will grow, and you will get a red line
going up your arm in a couple or three days…BLOOD POISONING…very serious stuff.
Goes to your heart, and can be fatal…
I am speaking from experience here…myself, my brother, and my sister inlaw, were
all bitten by his cat at the same time …cat went crazey over a puppy I had in my arms,
protecting her kittens I guess. ANYWAY …we all ended up in the hospital a few days
later, with BLOOD POISONING…Just thought I WOULD WARN YOU… you said your hand
was swelling…that’s the start of the infection…a simple shot of anti biotics or penacillin
wll take care of it, in most cases…
I hope I am not scareing you too much, …but if the swelling continues, don’t wait for
the red line to appear, like I did…being stuborn as I am LOL!!
I will comment on your painting, when you tell me you went to the doctor…does that
sound fair…LOL!!
TAKE CARE
Glenn


#440

Aw, thank you for the concern, Glenn… very much appreciated, and the first thing I did when I got in was ring the local health service hotline for advice, and went to see the doctor yesterday to get a tetanus jab and have it looked at. The swelling is better this morning, so I think it was just a short term reaction, but I’ll certainly keep an eye on it!


#441

Zepyhri,

Wow, what a beautiful update! And I’m so sorry to hear that you’re injured…cats are so odd sometimes! :rolleyes: Hard to know what sets them off, I guess.

I’m really enjoying the soft colors in your piece, and can’t wait to see your next update! :applause:

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak


#442

Hi …Zepyhri…:slight_smile:
Great to hear your bites aren’t infected…hope you gave the cat a good slap at least.
maybe not…MIGHT LEAD TO MORE BITES …LOL!!
Your stil working on doves I think, so I won’t say to much about them, other than…don’t
end up making them compete for atention with the main figure…one of the doves should be
primary…the others secondary…made so with shadows ect. I think the smaller one by her
hand is the primary dove, and creates the action…I think I like it’s original gesture better,
but maybe that’s just because it was more finished looking. I don’t think you need the dove
you added right behind that one…killes the openness in that area, and competes too much
with the first dove…and also makes the composition to obvious…you want painting to feel
uncontrived and have a natural open flow, with an element of surprise and mystery with the placement of your directional elements.
Also…don’t loose the richness of your shadow areas in clouds…I notice, your starting to
get a white’d out look in last version…looseing that rich orange and purple violet appeal
of the previous version…remember shadow adds to mystery and drama…depth and
beauty…I HOPE you don’t think i’m being too critical or nit picky at this point.
Just trying to be of some help, in this truly BEAUTIFUL PAINTING you are creating, and
like all advice, take it , or leave it…only you know what is best for your vision in the
end…:slight_smile:
TAKE CARE
Glenn


#443

Wooo… I finished it…well… for now. I might go back and tinker a bit in a couple of days. I don’t know whether I’ll be cutting it fine for Aphrodisia :argh: but never mind, the exercise in itself is certainly worth it. All hail the anatomy workshop!

Here’s the finished piece. Glad you mentioned the cloud shadows, Glenn, definitely better with them!:
Colours of the Wind

And some close ups:

I’ve also posted it in the finished 2d gallery too, with a story to go with it: Link . Thanks once again for everything guys! :applause: Now to go and write up a step by step! :beer:


#444

HI …Zephyr…:wavey:

Can’t stop admirering it…simply BEAUTIFUL…:thumbsup: :applause:

TAKE CARE
Glenn