Open Figure Drawing Workshop 009 with Ben Miller and Rebeccak


Mr. Mu,

I quite like this latest work, and think you’ve done a tremendous job with finding the balance and sense of weight with the pose. :slight_smile: I think the Sketchathon has helped! Nice work. I look forward to what you will do in the next OFDW. :thumbsup:

Cheers, :slight_smile:



thanks rebecca for taking the time to check this out and even reply after the workshop officially timed out - appreciate it as everything you say and do here…:slight_smile:


No prob, Mr. Mu. :wink: Hope you had a great holiday! :slight_smile:





thank you rebecca! :slight_smile:

well… yes… there is this part- 3D… Well… i think 3D is another point of view… Because as a 3D artist i don’t think you need that much traditional skills! A 3D artist knows the forms from he’s point of view - and that’s another story! And for him, Photoshop is very god for after randering effects.
But i consider this kiind of art something a little diffrent (and i must say that i admire a lot 3D artists! I don’t know much about what program is the best, but i will someday - sooon! - want to start “the 3D life” - it is deffinitly my next best step!:slight_smile: )

i have never heared of Ingres till now… Or maby i did and i don’t know who he is, but i will deffinitly check him up! :smiley:



Will reply to your PM soon. :slight_smile:


I’d just like to take the opportunity to thank Ben for being a wonderful model for the OFDWs, and I’m happy that he’s been such an integral and great part of these Workshops. :slight_smile:




Thanks very much, Rebecca! That’s extremely kind of you to say and I very much appreciate it.

I’m only too pleased to have been involved and to have had the opportunity and thank you and everyone here for that opportunity. I hope that I’ve been helpful and am quite willing to be helpful again when/if the opportunity arises. I strongly believe in the good influence that figure-based art can have on our world/society/culture and am only too pleased, if not anxious to support it as best I can. As I cannot draw (and have only ever frustrated myself in my attempts, so I’ve pretty much given up attempting), there’s only one way for me to (directly) contribute. I don’t think I can clap loudly enough or be supportive enough to express my appreciation for artists that develop such amazing talent and skill and that use that to express so beautifully the wonder and beauty that is humanity through figurative artworks.



Thank you! Very well~put. :slight_smile: We most definitely appreciate your contribution, and look forward to having you be a part of future OFDWs, as well as your contributions to the Anatomy Forum whenever you feel so moved. :slight_smile:




Hi Icey
as Rebeccak said, there´s two coins to that discussion. And it can be a delicate one:)

I think you can get your skills from many different medias. What you train is your ability to draw what you see, and understand it. Whether you do it with a pen or a wacom-pen. The technique of “putting” the shapes, forms and movement down is different but the technique behind is the same. You study your object, you find the angles, the directions and the values. And you draw them. I draw them on a wacom and screen you draw them on paper. Yes - I have the option to hit “undo”. But you can erase. In my case I don´t use photoshop, I use Painter - no filter, no manipulation. I would love to learn the technique of drawing with a traditional pen. And I think, after a while of getting use to it and learning the media, that I would reach the same level more or less, that I have with my wacom-pen.

As a digital artist people often have the impression that I “cheat”. That I take a photo and just copy it. That´s not true. The drawing skills has to be there, how can I otherwise find the form, shapes and volume? I agree that you have more options in colour - but it is hard to master all those options. Just as hard as it is to master them painting in traditional oil…

I´ve worked a long time in the graphicbusiness. So long that I started before the computer hit town. So, i´ve been doin´ my thing the very old, traditional way. But I would never say to one of my design students, that they have to go back to that way of working, because that´s where you have to start. But I do tell, that the things that were true then, is often true now as well. Even though the media and methods has changed.

And I think that´s the most important. The computer should never allow us to do a lesser job, than what they could achive all those years ago without them…


i agree :slight_smile:

but i still find it hard to learn with a wacom…I find it almost impossible to get the shape you could get with a pencil on paper, and i consider digital methods to be a help in continueing the art, not create it. But i’ve seen things done only on computer that looked damn good! And i have to admit, day by day i find digital methods comeing handyer… And about two years ago i was against Photoshop, maby in a couple of years i will forget about pencils and paper :slight_smile:

time will decide wich is best - at least for me - because i have to see somebody incredibly good that started drowing in PS and reached an outstanding level just to convince myself :smiley:

anyway - i’ve just started my digital painting… can i start a thread with this even thow it is not anatomy, but concepts too? Because i really don’t feel up to the 2D Finished work section…



Feel free to create your own Anatomy Thread of Icey. :slight_smile:

I don’t want to get into a digital vs. traditional debate here, but let’s just say that I totally agree with SaraD that just because you have Ctrl + Z, doesn’t mean that you can be a great digital artist. :wink: That is far too simplistic, and just untrue.

Digital art and Traditional Art are peas in a pod to my mind.

Cheers, :slight_smile:



To …Icey…SaraD …and anyone else who cares to read this…:slight_smile:

Tricks and manipulation have been used since the first artist arived on the scene, and
have been used in every medium that has ever been created.
To exclude them from your bag of tools, or tricks, would be a big mistake in my opinion.
It would simply mean that you are afraid of, or have not taken the time to MASTER, and
become MASTER OF the tools that have become available at this moment in time.
We are as artist, in the business of creating beauty ect. thru illusion, by whatever means
that become avalible to us.
The general public, or main audience, do not care, or know if filters and manipulation
were used to creat what they see. All they care about, is wheather they like it or not.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHEATING…That is a restriction imposed upon artist, by
other artist, who have, and always have had the mentality, that is and has always been
…AFRAID OF CHANGE… :slight_smile:
If we never took advantage of what has become, and is avalible to us as artist, we would

This is just my opinion on the subject of FILTERS AND MANIPULATION, IN THIS NEW MEDIUM…:eek: …:slight_smile:

Take Care


Hi SpiritDreamer!
As I said - this can be a really delicate question.

My answer was regarding drawing skills. And that one could not learn to draw without a traditional pen an paper. I think you can.

I am also a big fan of all kind of digital art - handpainted or manipulated, 3D or illustrations. And when I say that people thinks I “cheat” because I do it on the computer, doesn´t mean that I think it´s cheating to manip or use filters. I think you should be clear with what method you use, so that you don´t give the impression that it´s freepainted, when its a cloned or manipulated photo. That´s cheating. But using filters in itself is of course not cheating.

And I don´t exclude them from my bag of tools. Except from when I´m trying to draw something, when I´m trying to increase my skills in portraying the human body or the human face or whatever it is I am trying to capture on my canvas. Then they are not my tools. But when I do magazinecovers, bookcovers etc etc - they are one of my bets friends. I´ve been working with the “new” tools in a long time, and I wouldn´t trade for anything.

So, now I hope there´s noone out there who thinks I´m putting there method down, whatever method that is. The first post was regarding drawingskills. Not what is art and not art. Anything can be art.

Time to draw. Time to create. Time to have fun. In any media, and with any tool.


Hi SaraD…:slight_smile:

Just trying to settle this debate over old fashsioned verses new fashsioned methods of
creating art…
Whats new today, will be old tomarrow, and I am sure there will be more debate between
OLD and NEW …THERE and THEN also…:slight_smile:

Hey…By the way…I REALLY LIKE YOUR …DOODLE…:bounce: …:thumbsup:

Take Care


Hey guys, :wink:

I like discussion, but let’s not turn this into and Art Theories and Techniques kind of thing ~ that’s what that forum is for. :wink:

Cheers, :slight_smile:



Sure, always happy to help however I can (while hopefully avoiding the “too much Ben” syndrome :eek: ), what sorts of things would be helpful there and how do I contribute them?



No worries there :wink: if I can think of something, I will definitely ask you…I really just meant having you continue to participate in the OFDWs with your images and comments, which are both very useful and much appreciated. :slight_smile:




todays little sketch


Wow, Per! That’s quite emotionally impactful…it reminds me quite favorably of the type of experimental collage work I did in one particularly great class where we were encouraged to really mix media / etc. ~ probably one of the best classes I’ve had. It’s really cool to see this translated in digital terms. The body is definitely really solid, I only think the face needs a bit of refinement / to make it a bit more solid and dimensional. Great piece! :slight_smile:




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