New Updates Available!!! (2.5 & 5.5 + Demo)

#81

OMG. I’ve stated at least 3-4 times in this thread that I own a license and am awaiting my dongle.

#82

You are right. I should quit defending. It is pretty much useless and doesn’t accomplish anything. I am just frustrated with the lack of rational thought.

#83

Rational thought may often trip you up around here… what you need is faith.

#84

I still have to scratch my head and wonder why someone who admits to not even owning a license is spending the time to defend every remark that might be even a little bit critical of the pmG product.

Same here. I own messiah for 6 years, I used it from the plugin days, I was as positive about it as anyone could ever wish at times and did quite a bit for it and the community, thank you, but even my darkest predictions on how long it will take to get finished to the standard that was actually sold on Siggraph 2000 are outdated. (We’re not talking about some kind of spiritual state of “finished”, but sold features missing).

I know that I sound like a broken record very often, but I get in that mode by listening to the other broken record called pmG or users(?) like Nichod, not by being a mean guy in the first place. :wink:

And Nichod, you can play the “positive clown” as long as you want and throw your enthusiastic arguments around, but the people who are waiting for 6 years know exactly what “finished” in the case of messiah means.

Go through some of the old announcements please:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010402070813/http://www.projectmessiah.com/
Mac OSX, 64 bit, Develop(!!!), Standalone renderer, XSI support, you name it - that was 2001.
We’ve been through quite a lot I would say and as patient as a lamb on morphine.
For more fun, browse some other years:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010402070813/http://www.projectmessiah.com/
Quadruped Autorigs anybody? Python support? >LOL<

Sure I understood long ago that pmG took a bigger bite than they could swallow.
Sure I know that coding and documentation is work.
Sure pmG admitted in the meantime that some parts will never happen.
But that doesn’t change the fact that a lot of it comes down to vapor ware and false advertising.

And nobody forced them into creating software if it is too much for them. So why the pity?

I can counter each and every one of your arguments, but I did that often enough on other occasions with other people and should really try to stop it as was pointed out before.
The one point you get right is that it obviously doesn’t help.
pmG has proven to stay in their old habits quite rigidly over and over again.
Or did you see Tarons rendering Videos anywhere?
Even when I was part of the beta testing team, I had not much luck with getting the app on track or bugs fixed that I reported a dozen of times. I actually had to argue about even the most obvious bugs like a madman. So I decided to spare the effort ~two years ago.

As long as I have to fight with basic features like the manipulator or keyframing, I can’t take this software serious. Sure other software has bugs too, but usually on a completely different level with a lot of space to move around them.

Now I look forward to listen to the fantastic arguments you will sure give me.
But you can spare them just as well :wink: :bowdown:

Cheers

#85

And Nichod, you can play the “positive clown” as long as you want and throw your enthusiastic arguments around, but the people who are waiting for 6 years know exactly what “finished” in the case of messiah means.

I don’t appreciate being called a clown for being positive.

#86

Hey, nice to hear from you Thomas. Nice comments :thumbsup:

No arguments from me.

I say it like it is for me. You say it like it is for you.
Maybe pmG hears me. Maybe pmG hears you.

If current release is good for job… produce.

If not…

#87

I like using Messiah whenever I can. I’m always thrilled to see new updates. When I get frustrated at its bugs and features it doesn’t have, I use other tools. That usually quickly results in more pain and an intense desire to get back into a project where I can use Messiah again. I agree with Thomas in that it doesn’t live up to the “hype” it generated for itself back in the “boom” days and that often overshadows any changes and adjustments made in these revisions. To him its like they keep fiddling with the foundations of the amazing house he purchased years after they said it would be done. Back then we paid THOUSANDS of dollars for this program. It was an investment. I can see why Nichod wants to just forget all that and defend what is there now. I was never caught up in the hype of what Messiah could be. I purchased it for what it was at the time. A great Lightwave plugin. I kind of marvel at the people that purchase things based on a “future” feature list. (Modo anyone?) I know AlexK got it because he was interested in seeing how the (future) included RIB exporter would perform. HA HA :slight_smile: (Sorry Alex).

pmG is trying to be responsible in not listing future features any more. They tell us that they are listening and are working on it, but little else (Beyond a few Taronisms and that preview of Develop that looks like it will never pan out.). Hey. . . I don’t like it either. But its just software. Lets all take a chill pill and get off each others backs. K?

#88

You guys take this too seriously, its not a religion its a piece of software! There are lots of alternatives to using Messiah, its just that in using those alternatives you are going to remember certain things you really liked in Messiah. I.e I liked the edit curves in messiah. I liked the fast interativity with my models. I liked the ease of use when it came to facial animation and character rigging. Jointplacement in messiah was so easy in comparasion to the cat-system.

Thomas, what’s your experience with softimage? If you like it so much how come you don’t entirely remove yourself from the conversations on CGtalk’s messiah section.

#89

I’m on that road. I do all my commercial work in XSI already (mostly illustration), recently I start to look at the animation side and like what I’ve seen so far. Then my switch from Lightwave/messiah will be complete.

But like you said, there are those cool splinters that make us wish to be able to use messiah, in my case it is expressions, no-weight-rigging for simple stuff and the implementation of the shader tree that I like.

I dropped Lightwave completely and moved myself out of that loop 99.9%. I still feel sorry and sometimes quite angry about what happened to LW but I’m done with it for a long time.
messiah is more complicated. I invested way more into it, and at least I am responsible for the people who bought my plugins. I want them to have fun with a solid product. So for now I will have to stick with messiah and give each version a try to know if anything is broken.

I always liked the people here a lot, but I guess it is a new generation coming and I sure should just go away and leave it alone. Sometimes that works and sometimes something just makes me go mad.

Thanks Wegg for your solid view on things.

Carpe Diem :bowdown:

#90

Hehe, busted. :smiley:

Na, it was not the only buying decision, but yes, a Renderman export as advertised would still be nice. :wink:

But nevertheless, I use it in production and even use the renderer, which is able to produce very nice results, if you know its limitations.

I will not take part in that discussion again. It only creates a sour athmosphere and both sides don’t cooperate anyway.

#91

Since I don’t belive in any religion this subject is way more important for me!:stuck_out_tongue:
Just want to say that, but I get your point! :beer:

I really like the OpenGL-speed in Messiah, the expression-engine, fast displacement and the inovative team behind the software!!

/ Svante

#92

There will always be people (group A) who feel that things aren’t moving fast enough or that they can’t use what they have. And there will always be people (group B) doing and creating the things that group A wishes they could do themselves (but feels they don’t have the tools). However, guess what tools group B is using? The same ones that group A has.

I know that Thomas (as one example) hates this attitude from me, but the simple fact remains: The tools that currently exist for 3D, whether messiah, Maya, XSI, LW, etc. are more than capable of doing stunning, fantastic work. It’s up to the user to do that work. Updates can and will make things easier and faster, but I can give you quite an enormous list of awesome movies that used tools that would make you cringe if you had to use them today. Think they had today’s tools when they did Jurassic Park (SoftImage 1 or 2)? Toy Story? Titanic (LW 5.6)? Any movie done from the birth of CG up till maybe a year or two ago was done with outdated software that you’d laugh about if someone released today.

It’s very easy to forget everything that a piece of software has. I joked a few years ago that we could probably stop adding new things to messiah and just announce a new version listing those features that people don’t realize are in there.

Fred

#93

lets see those rigged character animations with perfectly colliding SBDs! and hair in messiah, even with polychains, lets see some polychain hair, colliding properly using soft bodies. I know i tried my best but i just cant get them to collide properly on a rigged character.

Maya seems to work fine with them, hair is there too, i am able to use those just fine. Maybe im just retarded and need someone to hold my hand with an SBD setup. MAybe a sample scene? if messiah is capable of it, lets see it!

#94

Fred,
I agree with what you said entirely. I think for the most part. For instance, I needed to do something recently I was having a headache trying to figure out in Messiah. I gave one phone call to taron and poof! I can now see the light, I was able to have my dynamics simulation and keyframe animation too! The thing you guys do not have an infastructure for fueling creativity like you used to. You no longer make movies to show how great and powerful messiah is.

Fred…we miss you buddy! You revolutionized documentation for 3D software and the like. We need more videos and docs and perhaps we wouldn’t ask for more features!
-=YARIV

#95

I agree with crossbones. More videos. Would love to see you demoing some of the new features.

#96

No fair! Not everyone can just call Taron when they get stuck in messiah :frowning:

#97

If you want to use Scale, you have to turn on those parts of the Edit Sphere on the Motion block. By default those rings are turned off, as are the ones for Pivot.

#98

[size=3]

[color=white][font=Verdana][SIZE=2]Fred,

[SIZE=2]Any chance of getting some information on the ‘transul depth’ setting in the ‘Render – Setting’ tab, as I couldn’t see any in the release notes.[/SIZE]

Thanks

R

[/color][/size][/font][/SIZE]

#99

Fred wrote:I joked a few years ago that we could probably stop adding new things to messiah and just announce a new version listing those features that people don’t realize are in there.

I agree.(except for the version release thing) How about some mini tutorials, or better yet, a few pages of concept/methodology that would invigorate some real innovation by us. Meaning, some “what if’s” or such, that would point is towards a realization of what al messiah can really do.

You know I’ve been a big supporter, and continue to be. I think messiah is amazing in character and riging tools. (not that we don’t need more, and some things like hair), which has been my main use. I’m about to tackle the whole surface and render thing. I think most of us obviously are impressed. Just looking to expand the base.

Best,
Rick

#100

rush123, Translu Depth is used when rendering translucency and determines how many surfaces it will pass through before it stops calculating the SSS effect.