Hehe - don’t worry - I’m NOT arguing in favor of these things - just offering an alternative.
It works here - definitive. Multiple selected channels, channel setting individual, grab mini-dopesheet and move. Hmm… maybe its different with the dope sheet?
That would suck.
Taron: put on one of those metal collar braces and eat lots of garlic before going down to the dungeon to inform them… It would suck to loose you after all these great feature ideas 
ok here are some funny ideas to raise some capital for future upgrades 
-sell company shares so users can start carrying the weight.
-i would love to pay for advanced downloadable tutorials, not all needs to be from Taron
-Modular approach, yeah hair is hot but not everyone needs hair. And these kinds of modules can be little expensive plugins but it should be worth buying them.
-Paid active community subscription to access things like latest betas and applications
-Paid manual, should be more in depth than the one comes with messiah
please add mroe if you have better ideas.
David,
Dopemaster, drag move some cells, inactive ones get re-activated destroying your anim. Another Inactive key horror - armatures - grab one that has an inactive key at that moment in time and the handle flies off to that old/inactive position. How frustrating is that!
Them there ‘inactive’ things are EVIL! 
Develop will be a lot of fun!
Creating it must be an HUGE effort. Every time you imagine something someone might want to mess around with creating, you have to build out more “creator code.” Yikes!
It doesn’t seem like there is anything else really out like it, or announced “to be released.”
I am glad that Taron and others are able to create and release things like Zborn toy until Develop is released.
I personally hope Develop has ways to build, or assist with Animate AND Render (pre and post, node and interface pop ups.)
Having said that, Im not sure exactly what would end up being built from that, but it would be fun to explore the capacity of the toolset.
-Garin
To Dmack:
I wonder if somebody should make an official poll about the
small upgrade price thing? The thing I was wondering about,
is whether $100 for a small upgrade would seem a lot to
somebody who owns messiah workstation. To me $100
would be a small upgrade because messiah studio pro
is $1000, but to those who only paid $300, it’s 1/3 of the
whole caboodle.
Oh well, I don’t know how these things are figured out.
I hope the idea helps to get things rolling though.
I think its fair since pro owners dont get much for their money and they contributed the most money for the cause… pro owner here.
A pay per feature solution like this would be good :
Image if you could donate to get your “dream-feature” implemented. The feature who get most money will be number one on “the list” and will also be the first one to be implemented!
So PMG could get paid per implemented feature and we can pay for what we need.
Can it be done??:drool: :deal:
/ Svante
Donate? Do you mean to donate to the company because you want a specific
feature, and then pay for the upgrade after that? I don’t think businesses
do things that way, unless you want to become a part owner with enough
clout to influence decisions. If you mean they should take a modular approach
(kinda like C4D), I think somebody suggested that…
$100 for a hair and fur module seems like the best option to me.
All other 3D packages charge between $500 and $800 for that kind of eye candy.
If taron believes they can program something on the level of Shave and a Haircut or Sasquatch if all pmG users pitch in $100, then let’s live with the mean ol edit sphere a while longer and get hairy.
For a Character Animation app, nothing says buy me, like full hair and fur functionality. Their really isn’t a cooler rendering feature to brag about. It’s what makes good rendering great.
That guy at Worley Labs made a quite living off it.
Also, Blender has some hair functionality already, and it’s probably not wise to lag behind freeware.
And for those people saying abandon Messiah Render, that would probably be the quickest way to stop pmG’s already slow cashflow. Small companies need as many features as possible to stand out in a crowded market. I don’t think going all the way back to the plugin days is the way to go. The last app that tried that (MotionBuilder) was gobbled up by a bigger fish.
Also, I don’t believe making Taron video some basic tutorials is the best use of his time. He’s one of those larger than life type CG artists / programmers. Just browsing through this forum, its seems like Wegg and JoeCosman know messiah’s rendering system pretty well, and Chikega has already supplied some quality free tutorials. Making Taron do what’s already been done feels like a bit of a waste.
Messiah needs new toys (hair) for Christmas, not boring old manuals. :buttrock:
Kind of…
Donate/pay to get just the feature you need (all other users will get that update as well).
And pay for the ordinary upgades where PMG decides what to implement and invent.
/ Svante
Hmm, and if you don´t get the top priority on your list you get a refund??? ;°]
Well, an interesting concept…
No! Not $100 for hair! The whole purpose of suggesting the $100 SMALL upgrade is to help PMG get back onto a road of stable, consistent development. Coding hair would take significant time and clearly they aren’t in a position to do that without more funds coming in.
That is why I’m suggesting something as simple as remove the inactive keys, that everyone seems to hate and get people to pay for it. Do a couple of these and then, when there’s visible progress and more communication from PMG, then we can all move onto more ambitious items.
Let’s crawl before we try and run.
PS Tyler - Pricing is always going to be an issue in a field with hobbyists and professionals. At the end of the day, PMG need to be paid good money for what they do. It’s super skilled work. If people can’t stump up $100, I think we’re pretty much lost before we start. The whole 3D pricing nowadays is unrealistic IMO and in the end it leads to unrealistic expectations.
Regards doing a poll. I think that’s an excellent idea BUT it would be good to hear from PMG - see if they are even interested in such a system to get things moving. It would be good to hear from Fori and Dan (as Taron has probably been shot )
Could you illustrate your way of doing this? I cannot really seem to get it…
But maybe we should move this out of this thread anyway… Somehow distracts from the real thread…
But still: to get rid of this odd benaviour I REALLY would be willing to pay for!:shrug:
Yeah… let’s.
After reading some of the comments here I have to express my concern for software development in general. 100 dollars doesn’t get you a hell of a lot - doesn’t pay one rent and maybe covers one week’s groceries. I have to think how I would react if a client came to me offered 100 dollars for my services. pmG has the multiplication of a user base, true - but let’s stay halfway reasonable, if not to say sane.
The tool messiah is the way it is because they aren’t doing something out-of-the-box. We all want the team to continue with their innovations - and I for one am willing to pay for that.
I think the reasonable road map is a 100 dollar upgrade for the burial of zombie keys and other smaller fixes - then a more in-depth animate round accompanied by a communication and development strategy.
Lets also remember that one of the messiah`s power is not the tool set only, its price makes it for considerable alternative to many. So in reality 100$ is not much for an upgrade. On the other hand upgrades should not turn messiah into way more expensive than its intended price. For example, if there is a fur plugin messiah, its price can lay somewhere between 100 to 250$. I personally have no problem with it. But if you embed that into an upgrade with some other fixes then ask 300$ for it, this can be a problem for many. That is why i personally think that modules and fixes should be kept seperate. And if there are innovations in between they should be a paid upgrade (we have enough space for extra tabs after “render” ) .
I’ve started a poll - not everything is in there, I know, but hopefully it will give form to the discussion… http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=4063962#post4063962
There have been some comments to the effect that only desired features should be paid for. An interesting thought which I fear ultimately steers up a dead-end alley.
My view of the licence I’ve purchased is that I’m paying the development team to use what they with their vision have created. They invite my feedback and try to accomodate me as the user, but it remains their vision - both technically and artistically (yes, artistically) - which I purchase access to. If you switch that about and pay only for what interests you, you undercut the more innovative aspects of development and ultimately the tool’s vision.
And its the innovation which has made messiah such an accessible, forgiving tool. It would be a shame to undermine that. I think the team just needs the environment in which to concentrate and a decent public front-end. I’d also like to see a strengthened use of the user-base to test the features and squash bugs - ie. a dedicated and integrated beta team.
Hey guys…perhaps we should slow down now. Lot’s of great comments of support, ideas, feature desires, etc. are flying now. I think PMG will probably appreciate most of what has been thrown at the wall. However, let’s remember that we don’t own or run the company, and we’re just trying to help.
I think they’ll thoughtfully consider what has been suggested. The decision on what and how is theirs.
The only thing I was thinking about upgrades was: Should those of us who paid the $1000 a seat be given a free upgrade…or free upgrades until the full package we paid for is delivered. Let me be clear that I don’t know for sure if I would use Develop…until I see and understand it. And I would still pay a small upgrade fee if it meant that PMG could press forward in the way they need to.
Best,
Rick
I completely agree with this. Just be cause they are willing to hear our ideas, let’s
not try to turn it into a total smorgasboard. Messiah is not a buffet lunch.
Yes, I agree. I have seen some people get pretty whiny, on other forums - they
want everything, and for free. I mean it’s incredible what this software can do
nowadays, and people still take this attitude.
Regards doing a poll. I think that’s an excellent idea BUT it would be good to hear from PMG - see if they are even interested in such a system to get things moving. It would be good to hear from Fori and Dan (as Taron has probably been shot
)
I thought Taron was the boss now? Are Fori and Dan that scary? wow.