We are in the process of upgrading our workstations in the studio
Currently we are using Mac pros 2010 with 12 cores and from what I saw in the new mac pros, there is not any big improvement compared to our current workstations, this is why I started looking at the PC side where there are more options for CPUs, GPUs etc.
Our daily tasks involves a lot of Cinema4D, After effects and Premiere animations and rendering but also other Adobe CC family applications like photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign.
Can someone please direct me to comparisons that were made between the new Mac Pro and other High end PC manufactures like Dell, HP, Boxx etc.
Thanks in advance
I hope I am not starting a new Mac vs PC war here, I am the last man to be emotionally attached to a specific computing platform.
It depends on what your focus will be. The more cores the better for rendering with applications like Cinema 4D. For the price of the 12 core Mac Pro ($9,600) you could get a Dell Precision 7910 ($8,800) with 24 cores at 2.3 GHz compared to 2.7 GHz on the Mac Pro but there are two times as many of them. Both with 64 GB of memory, but faster storage on the Mac Pro and the Mac Pro has dual GPU (moot point in most applications).
There are other processor options depending on if you plan to do more After Effects or other applications that don’t use all of the processor cores. For example the E5-2667 v3 processor which is 8 cores at 3.2 GHz and is an option on the Dell workstations (16 cores total with dual sockets).
For what it’s worth I went from a 2010 Mac Pro with 12 cores to a Supermicro build with dual E5-2687W v2 processors (16 cores at 3.4 GHz), 64GB of memory, Quadro K5000, and it has been wonderful. There are a lot of folks that like working on Mac which is fine, but it sounds you’ve come to the same conclusion that I did. Without dual processor sockets it isn’t in the same class anymore.
The nMP 12 core starts at 6000$(after business discount), not 9600$. add 64GB from Crucial and you are just at 6600$. A 2.3ghz CPU will be very slow for working in C4D and while rendering(multithreaded) will be faster on a modern dual CPUs workstation everything else will be much slower compared to 4, 6 or 8core CPU with higher ghz because many stuff are still just single threaded(that’s why many PC users are happily switching from low ghz Xeon to OC i7 machines, and no… you will not need ECC for rendering).
A 6/8core nMP will be fast enough for most things, also faster than 10/12/14/18core machine in every task not involving multithreading(and there are a lot of them, just open activity monitor and tell me how often you are using all the core during a day… not that much if you are not rendering…).
Yes you’ll lack local render power comparing to dual CPUs but all you need to fix this issue is to buy one or more cheap render nodes.
For about 7000$ you can buy a 6core nMP + 4x 6core i7 slaves. This way you will have huge ssd speed, fast single thread performance(which is what you need while working unless you are simulating/rendering) and with the slaves running you will render much faster than every dual Xeon machine(including 2x18core), and more important you can stay on OSX and forget about Windows glitches, poor multitasking and viruses(I’m sorry… I love my PCs when it comes to render but this things do exist).
There was a guy on C4D forum telling people that mac can’t do this, can’t do that… then I’ve recorded this little video and he disappeared: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfRn1fAreVM
Truth is that working on the nMP is a totally different experience than working with old MP(I own several old macpro too). When I need render power I just start my slaves(take literally 5 seconds), I press render button, and I enjoy 64 fast core crunching render on my desktop.
Of course if you don’t mind working on Windows than choose whatever you want;) Boxx, Dell or HP are just using standard PC components so IMO it’s much better to assemble a machine by your self(very easy this days) and save tons of money. If you want a dual Xeon its better to have a good balance of single thread and multithread speed, the more core you have the less ghz so personally I like dual fast 8core CPUs much more than 12core with crappy 2.3 ghz. If you don’t mind leaving Xeons you can build an OC i7 machine(6/8core) that will run circle around every Xeon workstation(Mac or PC) while working in Cinema4D and if you need more power my advice is always the same, add some slaves and you will be fine.
I was comparing apples to apples, no pun intended. If you buy your own memory and cut corners elsewhere you can lower the cost of the Dell workstation too. Regardless of the nitpicking the new Mac Pro is still a raw deal when it comes to rendering performance no matter how you spin it.
There are pros and cons to using distributed bucket rendering. I’ve found some scenes which render very poorly using distributed bucket rendering like volumes (smoke, fog, fire) which tend to render faster using only the localhost. All of those cores aren’t available for other tasks like creating a 7-Zip archive (can use all of the cores in the system with LZMA2), or dynamics simulations like FLIP fluids or Navier-Stokes fluid simulations for smoke and fire, or trans-coding large files.
Also distributed bucket rendering doesn’t require a new Mac Pro. That can be done on any platform and with most applications. The only reason you bring it up here is because that’s the only way to get competitive rendering performance with a Mac now. In other words the new Mac Pro is great for rendering if you build a render farm from components for distributed bucket rendering. :rolleyes:
Honestly I’ve purchased my farm before the nMP, as soon as DR become available for Vrayforc4d;)
Agree with you that you can use DR with PCs too. Just browse cinebench results and you will see that multi CPUs today are good just for rendering/simulation, for everything else fast single CPU machines offers faster workflow for a fraction of the price and again with a couple slaves they will be faster than any dual Xeon.
The idea of having one workstation for everyday work and a few slaves for rendering/simulations is very interesting and in the past few days I investigated about it but the problem is that in our department we are very low a space so having both workstations and dedicated place for the slaves is very problematic and not practical for us.
After searching for high end workstation I narrowed my search around the HP z840 and dell t7910 but since they are just announced there are no reviews or benchmarks about them, I will keep looking and hope to find something new about this two models.
Hello! LONG Time CGSoc. reader, but first time poster ,… I just purchased a Dell T7910 with 32GB ram and the XEON E5-2560 v3 (the Deca-Core) processor. I didn’t realize that if I Ordered a single Proc, I would be getting a One Proc capable Motherboard! (there’s something I learned to share right there.) I was counting on the upgradablility of the T7910 (which gets here Friday, here being Walnut Creek near Silicon Valley) and that other Proc. slot to give me a future proof solution. I still have hope it will have 2 slots, but not much. Looks like I will have 8 memory bays instead of 16 as well. Depending on what you want to do, You may want to get 2 of the lower cost procs for the same price of the one higher end procs, and upgrade later, but that’s kind of a toss up as to which would be better,… I would be happy to help you research and answer any questions you have as I get to know the new machine.
Let me ask Your opinion if you don’t mind ;~)
I am coming from an
ASUS Sabertooth X58 MB with an Intel i7-970 (6-core) w/ 12GB of DDR3.
I am adding the T7910 with the XEON E5-2650 and 32GB of DDR4, is this a … good step up from where I was (mostly trying to render in Autodesk 3Ds Max, that’s my biggest bottle neck…) Max will see the Deca-core as 20 Render Threads! That seems pretty cool to me, I could have gone that one step further and gotten a second 2650 for about $1500 more but I got out with about a $4000 price and that seems pretty good for what I’m getting. I plan to add a 240-500GB SSD boot-drive later (see below), AND I can always upgrade to 128GB ram (4x more!) and the 18-CORE version of the E5 XEON (w/ 36 Render Threads Nearly Double the 2650) later and still have a heck of an upgrade path, so I’m trying to see the bright side, I still have much room to expand and have not made a mistake, I kind of like the lower power of 1 single efficient proc. anyways and the 2650 was a nice particularly low power one (105w I think) compared to most of the other choices right above and below it which were mostly all 130 w 120w etc. It seems to be one of the E.W. Xeons (efficient workflow) that have great speed power and energy profiles…
I have so very much to learn (and Share!) about my new machine, like:
is it over-clockable?
How much will the clever engineered air shrouds silence the machines running noise level (My Sabertooth x58 Home Build is Very Loud …) and help with cooling,
Can I install a normal SSD (I am looking at SSDs to see what the new specs are, they seem to have come down in price!) BUT I need to make sure the take advantage of the 12GBs SATA Ports on the T7910 (that’s pretty fast, Like MOORES Law fast LOL, My last one was 6gb… before that 3gbs,. HEY Moores does work!
Ok, I hope I haven’t typed too many lines or said too much for this forum, a lot of young people these days seemed overwhelmed and downright shocked by anything more than a couple compact lines of text. But good and full information is not really compactable. I vastly prefer the Instantly Available nature of text over the laborious time-consuming linear ‘videos’ which to me seem to take 10 times longer to sit and wait for the right information to pass by, rather than instantly scanning, gleaning and moving on with text…
Anyways, I just joined CGTalk (and talk and talk LOL) to discuss with you my new T7910 purchase and share opinions, revelations, etc. Please let me know if you personally think I have made a mistake not getting 2 procs ($1500 is a lot to me just to get a second proc though) or if that XEON E5 18core version of the proc. as a future upgrade path in a couple years, seems like it would be sufficient over my 10-core to make me feel I am still advancing along with you ‘Big Boys’! (I’m a one man - one stop - animation studio)
One last question! Not too long ago, I bought a nice drive I really like called an ‘OCZ Vertex 3’ and it is a 512GB SSD, I am running it on my my Sabertooth MB for now where it gives a 7.9 of 7.9 on the Windows Experience Index, would this nice drive be acceptable to put into my DELL as a boot drive OR is there a totally new faster SSD standard already (the 12GB/sec type speed of the 7910s SATA) and I should buy a totally new one for my DELL? I would like to have one GREAT machine and make the i7’s 12 cores machine a render only box, so IF the Vertex 3 is advanced enough to be appropriate in the T7910 I would install it in here and re-install windows. I hope the Dell comes with a disc that helps me re-install everything. I don’t even know what accessories or part come with it, It felt like Buying Blind at DELL, They sure have iffy sub-par support… Dreadful trying to wring even a single fact or clue out of them about what I have purchase (still don’t know if I’m getting energy star power supply) If you Do order a DELL , CALL to Order! Don’t do the crap automated thing!
THANK YOU!
