Muti/Sub-object texturing in Maya...how?

#1

Could anyone give me the correct procedure in doing this technique Maya that is very simple to do in 3dsmax.

If anyone uses the same software, I’m sure you know what Multi/Sub-object texturing in 3dsmax is. I’m trying to do the same in maya but I’m having difficulties in producing a similar result.

Multi/Sub-object texturing is equivalent to Multitexturing in Maya (my understandng). However it’s somewhat explained like it’s a Composite (3dsmax) texturing in the Maya manuals not Muti/Sub-object.

In maya, I want my polycube to have different textures in all 6 polygon faces but with a single material shader (ex. Lambert). The way it is explained in the manual is hard to relate with since it’s a flat polymesh that they used not a 3d object; it’s like a layered texturing actually wherein layers are mixed with other layers.

It’s supposed to be UV-centric mapping but eventhough I have independently projected UV mapping in all faces, it won’t show up correctly in software rendering. Some layers are missing and I’ve played with different blending methods.

Correct me but I understand that Multitextuing in Maya is actually Layered or composite texturing (in one mapping direction) not the multi-texturing that actually textures different polyfaces in different projections. I can put different textures in different polyfaces but those textures have their own shaders attached to them and this is not what I wanted.

This is somewhat a very long explaination but I need that detail to help those who knows what exactly my problem is.

Thanks.

#2

Originally posted by wireFrame
Correct me but I understand that Multitextuing in Maya is actually Layered or composite texturing (in one mapping direction) not the multi-texturing that actually textures different polyfaces in different projections. I can put different textures in different polyfaces but those textures have their own shaders attached to them and this is not what I wanted.

All the multi subobject material in Max is, is a collector for individual materials assigned to a single object. As far as I know Maya has no equivalent as it’s not a necessary feature. Maya is fundamentally different from Max. In Maya you can acess all the shaders assigned to a single object by graphing the connections in the Hypergraph. Max implements the multisubobject material because it has no other way of visually representing an organized collection of individual shaders.

#3

in max, you select the faces and then assign to them an ID and the place your materials in the corresponding slots. in maya, you just assign shaders to selected faces for multi-subobject texturing.

#4

Yes, Max and Maya work very differently where shading and mapping are concerned, and to my knowledge there isn’t a way to do what you’re asking in the same way Max does it. Assigning different shaders to each face would be the usual way to do it in Maya, is there a reason you don’t want to do it this way? If you want to be able to control all shaders from one place, you could use the connection editor to have a ‘master’ shader control all the others, which each have different texture maps.

If you’re new to Maya, be wary of the terminology used, because multitexturing is NOT the same as multi/sub texturing - in Maya multitexturing allows you to use as many UV sets as you like on a single object, very powerful, but this is not the node you’re looking for… and using layered shaders isn’t multitexturing either, even though it’s using multiple textures.

Sometimes I think they do this just to confuse us :scream:

Wabo.

#5

Originally posted by Waboflex
[B]Yes, Max and Maya work very differently where shading and mapping are concerned, and to my knowledge there isn’t a way to do what you’re asking in the same way Max does it. Assigning different shaders to each face would be the usual way to do it in Maya, is there a reason you don’t want to do it this way? If you want to be able to control all shaders from one place, you could use the connection editor to have a ‘master’ shader control all the others, which each have different texture maps.

If you’re new to Maya, be wary of the terminology used, because multitexturing is NOT the same as multi/sub texturing - in Maya multitexturing allows you to use as many UV sets as you like on a single object, very powerful, but this is not the node you’re looking for… and using layered shaders isn’t multitexturing either, even though it’s using multiple textures.

Sometimes I think they do this just to confuse us :scream:

Wabo. [/B]

I think so too. Maya’s texturing tools are the worst, most difficult, unintuitive and time consuming that I’ve ever seen. In my brief encounter with them I have come to completely detest them.

#6

Originally posted by MJV
[B]

I think so too. Maya’s texturing tools are the worst, most difficult, unintuitive and time consuming that I’ve ever seen. In my brief encounter with them I have come to completely detest them. [/B]

I disagree. I also think the key word in your post is brief. Anytime you spend a brief period with a portion of Maya’s massive tool set, you are likely to walk away with a skewed perspective of its true nature, positive or negative.

Also, sometimes it is the app you left behind that deserves the blame for having forced you into accepting cludgey systems. Case in point: this thread started because an experienced Max user was looking for an equivelent to an elaborate sytem in Max that need not exist in Maya because Maya allows you to assign materials directly on a per-face basis. How much more simple does it get than selecting faces and applying a material? Smoothing groups are another example of this type of thing. You might have to unlearn what you have learned. :slight_smile:

Further, I don’t think anyone has a lock on the meaning of the word “multi-texturing.” Within Maya, there are many ways in which multiple textures might be applied to a model, all of which could be logically construed as multi-texturing.

And so ends my rambling for the day.

-jl

#7

I thank you all for givng me an explanation to my problem.

I’m not that new to Maya but I just want to do something that I thought was correct but then again it wasn’t. It’s misleading/confusing and I agree with Waboflex.

I know maya has differend approach especially this texturing aspect and I understand MJB frustrations about it. However I don’t use one app (Maya, softimage3d,max) and with this exposure, I know what software to use when I encounter a specific project that needs 3d solution. Eventhough Maya is indeed a powerful tool, it’s not the fastest. I save few more mouse clicks by using another app with this problem in question. I was able to do the same technique even in XSI that I don’t know much about (yet). It’s like beveling or scaling operations or clicking that render button.

Now where’s that principle that: 'if you know a single powerful software, you won’t have problems adjusting/learning others." Why the heck does Renderman exists? I’d rather use Renderman/MTOR and get better result and faster output overall. In Renderman, by the way, there’s no layered textures.

If you analyze the way Maya does UV mapping/texturing, it’s close to what Multi/Sub-object texturing it is in Max but Maya lost it for a more ‘mouse-clicking approach’ in the relationship editor.

I apologize for those hard core Maya users but (I think) in a tight-scheduled working environment with few crews such as ours, relying on one app doesn’t work most of the time.

#8

By the way, the reason I wanted a single shader for all the textures is that I can have control to all those textures without wasting too much space on my monitor. I have to accept and use the solution that u gave me and I greatly appreciate that.

What I have to do is to bypass all those extra shaders by connecting a master shader to each of them (oh, boy; what a convention!) If U have to connect every shader attribute to that master controller shader then it’s a terrible workaround.

Better off UV mapping that with a single texture composited/arranged in photoshop and use automatic mapping.

No intentions to argue about this matter.

#9

"I disagree. I also think the key word in your post is brief. Anytime you spend a brief period with a portion of Maya’s massive tool set, you are likely to walk away with a skewed perspective of its true nature, positive or negative. "

That’s true. I don’t have alot of experience yet with Maya’s toolset. Still my first impression could not be any worse.

“Also, sometimes it is the app you left behind that deserves the blame for having forced you into accepting cludgey systems. Case in point: this thread started because an experienced Max user was looking for an equivelent to an elaborate sytem in Max that need not exist in Maya because Maya allows you to assign materials directly on a per-face basis. How much more simple does it get than selecting faces and applying a material? Smoothing groups are another example of this type of thing. You might have to unlearn what you have learned. :)”

I use Cinema 4D where assigning textures with different projection to different polys is a breeze. You simply name a poly selection set anything you like. Then you create a texture with any mapping and restrict it to the poly selection set. It couldn’t be simpler. Maya on the other hand is a nightmare. I still can’t figure out how to assign a texture to a set with it’s own projection. I’m currently working on a Subdiv model and when I assign a material to a poly subset those poly’s lose their Subdiv status. If my experience with Maya thus far holds up then I’m sure there are five or six fairly undocumented and obscure hoops I need to jump through to get this simple operation to work. I guess if you’re an artist at ILM with a team of supergeek engineers at your disposal to explain the arcane workings of Maya then it’s no sweat.

“Further, I don’t think anyone has a lock on the meaning of the word “multi-texturing.” Within Maya, there are many ways in which multiple textures might be applied to a model, all of which could be logically construed as multi-texturing.”

But why do all the explanations of UV sets contain nothing but explanations of multitexturing? Are they related in some way that I can’t yet fathom?

MV

#10

That’s why we don’t use one app for a job. The one that would make it to the deadline will be the one’s to use. You can’t rely on Maya for projects that needed raytracing (like product bottles, cg water, etc.) or quality sprites particle animations to name a few. If you have a loose timetable then you can do it in Maya and spend time on the manuals from time to time. Being a powerful and complex app to use has its downside especially now that other apps are getting easier and more userfriendly in every new release.

Look what Side Effects has done to Houdini: they can’t get a fair amount of users because their app is unreasonably complicated to use and they accepted that they have to make everything simple–the very same reason why we use computers which is to make life easier.

In a major fx company like ILM, there are texture specialists. An animator like me won’t have problems texturing those simple cubes 'coz the texture artist will take care of it but they will use the ‘standard’ which is Renderman that doesn’t use Maya shaders.

Look who produces some of the most eye popping 3d images here at cg talk… Maya indeed has to drop its price (or give it away for free) 'coz they are loosing to the competition that implements user-friendly approach. Why use an app that would eat most of your precious production time trying to figure out what’s the best way (among several) to texture a simple object? I’m not that experienced in Maya and this software not our primary tool to use in our setup but we have to use it 'coz we have it. Forget about that impression that Maya users are ‘cool’ ‘coz eventhough I use it, I consider myself as an "Animator’ not a ‘Maya Animator’ which will make me less marketable.

It’s not the software as we all know; it’s your ability to produce quality animation using these tools that counts.

If Maya slows down your day, use another app.

#11

Originally posted by wireFrame
[B]

It’s not the software as we all know; it’s your ability to produce quality animation using these tools that counts.

If Maya slows down your day, use another app. [/B]

I’m not using it because I like it. The problem is that alot of productions still want to use Maya because its a standard or something. The main thing is it has a decent animation toolset and a good production pipeline with the mel scripts and file referencing, so nevermind that the rendering, texturing, and lighting tools as so archaic and subpar. You’re absolutely right about the fact that the best images are coming from more user friendly, modern apps. The ILM’s of the world still have these ancient pipelines using Alias Wavefront and or Maya, but let their matt artists use whatever they want. The commercial houses are turning to Softimage XSI. The bright up and comer studios are finding new solutions such as Lightwave and messiah Animate (Jimmy Neutron). I personally don’t see Maya having a very bright or wonderful future ahead unless they can improve and simplify the app into something a little more artist friendly.

#12

The way for two objects to share the same shader yet have separate textures in maya is to use switch nodes in the shading network. The doc should have the info you need(lookup switch nodes).
Duncan

#13

Very true Duncan, but in the case of a cube you’d have to make each face a separate object since the switch nodes only seem to work on a per-object basis, not components.

Or is there another way? :surprised

Wabo.

#14

I use Cinema 4D where assigning textures with different projection to different polys is a breeze. You simply name a poly selection set anything you like. Then you create a texture with any mapping and restrict it to the poly selection set. It couldn’t be simpler.

Perhaps it couldn’t be simpler, but it could be just a simple. In Maya you select faces and assign a material. It’s two steps, which I count as fewer steps than the process you described for Cinema.

Maya on the other hand is a nightmare. I still can’t figure out how to assign a texture to a set with it’s own projection.

From the material AttrEditor, click on the texture button next to the channel you wish to add a texture to. Then and click on the As Projection radio button in the Create Render Node panel. Then click on the file node button, or whatever other shader you might want to be projected. It’s three steps. When did three steps become classified as “a nightmare?”

-jl

#15

Originally posted by bigfatMELon
[B]

Perhaps it couldn’t be simpler, but it could be just a simple. In Maya you select faces and assign a material. It’s two steps, which I count as fewer steps than the process you described for Cinema.

-jl [/B]

Easy enough but unfortunately this process does not work where Subdiv surfaces are concerned. Assigning a material to a the low res cage polys makes those polys lose their subdiv status. If you reactivate subdivs for those poly’s then the texture info for everything is screwed up and the textures will no longer be restricted. Since I’m working with a subdiv character, the simple method you describe is not working.

Originally posted by bigfatMELon
[B]
From the material AttrEditor, click on the texture button next to the channel you wish to add a texture to. Then and click on the As Projection radio button in the Create Render Node panel. Then click on the file node button, or whatever other shader you might want to be projected. It’s three steps. When did three steps become classified as “a nightmare?”

-jl [/B]

Thanks, I’ll try that if I can ever get past the subdiv problem described above.

MV

#16

MJV

I try to avoid texturing subdees and to get past that is to convert them to polygon as close resolution/level as your subdivision model. You work with the converted one as your new working model since subdivision in maya has bugs interms of texturing.

Even a longtime Maya user like Steven Stalhberg encountered this and he had no idea how to go around it. You can personally write to him to get some idea how he solved this delicate problem.

Your ****ed up–I’m sorry for you, dood.

#17

If you have hierarchical edits on the subdivision surface you have to assign UVs to the subdivision surface directly, or convert it to polygons and assign UVs. If you assign UVs and shaders to the poly proxy you have to select the subddivsion surface node alone and delete it. Then select the poly proxy and convert it back to a subdivision surface.

#18

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