Mudbox 2009 or BodyPaint and ZBrush

#12

Well, I think each of them has the unique tools and depend on what you want they will give you the best workflow.

For example texturing, ZBrush is a good tool but paint directly on multi-mesh (subtool) while you can rotate around them are impossible. I don’t know mudbox can paint on multi-mesh or not but 3Dbody paint does the job very well.

For sculpting, I have to agree that Mudbox is very simple that even me with an hour playing around I can make an awesome looking mesh (well, maybe just for me). Whereas, ZBrush can do the job but can go beyond with awesome tools such as transpose tool, blending multi-mesh (subtool) seamlessly. Plug-ins go along with ZBrush are awesome as well, such as ZApplink, Zmapper and so on.

So… what I mean is that base on what you need, each applications will give you the unique tools to work with.

IF… Mudbox can paint directly on multi-mesh without sub-D into high levels to keep detail, I will choose mudbox for sure. ZBrush requires users sub-D the mesh to keep detail, it’s impossible when you are working with low mesh for video game. I mean is for people who only have like 2GB RAM, how can they sub-D the mesh into high level? So yeah… that’s the only thing I wish Mudbox 2009 will have. 3Dbody paint can do it so why not Mudbox right?

#13

Not anymore. You can use the alt and cmd buttons with the pen button to scroll, rotate and zoom.

It’s pretty neat.

#14

I’ll agree with this 3DC is the best bet if you want sculpting in addition to painting on the model, not to mention the retopo tools that are really well done.

#15

The only limitation with 3d coat comes from your video card memory.You will neet 512Mb to handle multiple 4k textures.

#16

I have had no trouble with a couple of 4k textures and 350MB, but you’re right more than that causes trouble. Although who knows what’s happening within the next couple months. with multi-threading, CUDA support, volumetric sculpting and even a new professionally designed interface.

#17

Not really much of a problem, especially not for videogames, since meshes are often split into head, upper torso, lower torso etc. 2gb will do good, I work personally and professionally with that. All characters runs smooth. This should apply to mudbox too I presume. Polypaint is the way to go if you can, never any trouble with seams, and an actual highres mesh in front of you as you work. Plypaint in Mudbox 2 wins over zb though, (for only a while I hope:) )

Actually partially easier for games, as artist’s imaginary texture sizes only lasts until the optimization phase:p

However, texturing the actual lowpoly character, does not work at all in either of mb or zb, you really need to have bodypaint (or PS) to texture that. And bodypaint+photoshop was a dissapointment to me, considering bodypaint doesnt support all layer features from PS, which can be a huge problem.

My personal advice is Zbrush and Photoshop. But of course, MR/ZB doesnt really matter, its a question of taste. Bodypaint is nice, but you really can live without it.

#18

@hakanpersson: I’m not talking just about character ^.^ I mean everything and it includes hard surface models. For example, a spaceship with many details on it and they are on in one peice. So with 4GB, I cannot subD it to level 4 ~.~ I guess I can if I separate each piece into each subtool. In this case 3Dbody paint does the job. It can paint directly on multi-mesh with low polygon and still keep the detail of the brushes and textures I apply. So I like it. But overall, everyone has their own opinon :smiley:

#19

I won’t disagree, BP3d is capable of doing thing neither ZB or MB is capable of. But in the list of choices, BP3d is still the app I can live without, since photoshop can do the same, except without proper 3d.

Hard surface overall is pretty crappy in ZB/MB. Maya SubD works pretty nice, but nurbs and smoothpreview meshes are suicide quite often:)

#20

Just tried the Mudbox 2009, I find that it’s abit easy to use then Zbrush, I just bought the Zbrush book for learning last feel week, but find that the workflow is not that user friendly. I tried Mudbox & refer to my old Digital tutors video on the Mudbox v1 series, I pick up around 15min with some explore. :stuck_out_tongue:

Although, some changes had been made, but using Mudbox like abit using Maya as some of the control have the same feeling, e.g. keyboard shortcut.

Zbrush is good but the workflow is not my cup of tea. :hmm:

#21

Note too that Mudbox2009 has serious video card limitations as they recommend using NVIDIA Quadro workstation cards. They even mention that their commercial gaming cards are not enough.

I think 3d Coat gives far better video performance vs Mudbox 2009 on any given machine.

Don’t get me wrong, Mudbox2009 is a nice program. But as a hobby user, I can’t justify getting a $1000 plus video card, 700 w power supply, etc,etc. Meeting mortgage payments, feeding the family,etc,etc come first, ya know? :slight_smile:

(BTW-I’m using an Athlon64 X2 4400, win xp 32, 3Gb ram, Radeon HD 3670 512Mb ram video card.)

I can see pro users wanting Mudbox2009, but the hardware upgrade and software upgrade is just too rich for many hobby users, no matter how interested they are in Mudbox.

Mudbox 1 was fine for most users. For my uses, I’ll stick to MB1 for sculpturing and paint and sculpture in 3d Coat 3.0.

Just my 2 cents.

#22

My Gaming card tends to work well enough… (32+million polys are workable)

I think 3d Coat gives far better video performance vs Mudbox 2009 on any given machine.

I think you need to recheck your opinion… :slight_smile: MB09 destroys 3DC in terms of performance, and in workflow, they are the only two things MB09 does better than the competition IMO.

But I’m a huge fan of Andrews and 3DC it’s tools and feature-set is amazing especially considering the price. But the current Alpha versions can’t handle anywhere near the polycounts that Mudbox 2009 already does, So I’m not sure of what basis you make the above claims?

Don’t get me wrong, Mudbox2009 is a nice program. But as a hobby user, I can’t justify getting a $1000 plus video card, 700 w power supply, etc,etc. Meeting mortgage payments, feeding the family,etc,etc come first, ya know? :slight_smile:

Yeah i Know it’s a shame that family get in the way of important things like Mudbox… :wink:
As someone without family I’m glad that pro tools that achieve workflow and performance like MB exist where others only add features.

I can see pro users wanting Mudbox2009, but the hardware upgrade and software upgrade is just too rich for many hobby users, no matter how interested they are in Mudbox
.

I agree but that’s why Silo, Blender, 3DC and Zbrush exist to cater for Hobbyists, Obviously MB was designed for Weta users so it’s meant to have that professional edge that most hobbyists would generally give up for mortage payments, and diapers… :slight_smile:

Mudbox 1 was fine for most users. For my uses, I’ll stick to MB1 for sculpturing and paint and sculpture in 3d Coat 3.0. Just my 2 cents.

I think that’s good advice for most Hobbyists… ZB and 3DC offer far more bang for buck with most of what MB and others can do, So it tends to make good sense for everyone except hardcore users of the tools.

#23

3DC may not have the hugest user base yet (it’s only a year old) but I know at least a couple of pros who use it in TV and games. My current volumetric model is about 15.5 mil triangles, which is of course about 31 mil. quads like MB uses. It works nicely, especially if you hide parts of the model you’re not using. Of course you could always get nearly infinite detail if you switch from voxel mode back to the old method.

#24

What are your other computer specs? I’m running an Athlon 64 X2 4400, win xp, 3 Gb ram, ATI Radeon HD 3670 512Mb video card. I’m beginning to think that it’s my ATI video card-NVIDIA seems to beat ATI for 3D stuff every time. While I can’t afford a $1500 Quattro card, I could afford say an NVIDIA GeForce 8800 Ultra 768mb for around $150. Would I see a big improvement on my system?

Right now if I subdivide a basic sphere in MB2, them add a material and do a small amount of painting, the system stops and the image goes white. It looks like the system is being overloaded.

I think you need to recheck your opinion… :slight_smile: MB09 destroys 3DC in terms of performance, and in workflow, they are the only two things MB09 does better than the competition IMO.

Uh-no, not on my system right now. 3dC 3 Alpha has way better performance than MB2 on any given system. I agree that MB2 has a nice workflow. However, Andrew has hired an interface designer to re-design the 3dCoat interface for the 3.0 final.

I’m glad that pro tools that achieve workflow and performance like MB exist where others only add features.

Oh, don’t get me wrong, MB2 is great, but I think a lot more effort should have been made by Autodesk to let people know what was required to use MB2 in a reasonable, workable fashion. MB1 just required a pretty average system; MB2 requires a top end system. Folks get mighty ticked off when they buy software that they can’t use. I used the demo first, so I’m ok.

I agree but that’s why Silo, Blender, 3DC and Zbrush exist to cater for Hobbyists, Obviously MB was designed for Weta users so it’s meant to have that professional edge that most hobbyists would generally give up for mortage payments, and diapers… :slight_smile:

But that wasn’t made very clear, that’s the point! :slight_smile:

[quote]
ZB and 3DC offer far more bang for buck with most of what MB and others can do,

ZB? That would cost me $739.28 Cdn. Besides I’m not into highly convoluted and quirky workflows. No thanks to that! :slight_smile:

Cheers

#25

Voxel doodling at 16-17m triangles (32-34m quads). Not really any fancy modeling, just doodling with a couple different tools. The video recording may have slowed it down a little.

Edit: Sorry had to remove video, was reaching my Jing bandwidth limit.

#26

Sorry if I am 1/2 asleep here, but what was the point of your post? I really don’t understand. Were you just trying to show what 3d Coat can do?

#27

Yes that’s all, just showing that it’s quite capable of working with a high poly count, even though CUDA has not yet been implemented.

#28

Ok, I’m awake now and see your vid link.

So nearly 17 million triangles? How does this compare to what you can get in MB2? I know it’s only a rough test, but still it’s on the same computer.

Cheers

#29

I don’t know I briefly played with the MB2 demo then it crashed when I tried to paint on my model, after that it would never open again, even after a re-install.

#30

Actually, 3DC 3 alpha runs in 32 bits mode. There will be also a 64 bits version for the release with boosted performances.

I tried Mud 2009 demo (quadro Fx 1500 , latest drivers). can’t even select properly faces to set up the tangent symetry. I’m simply waiting for a Service pack to make up my mind.

#31

Oh…well that’s REAL useful, ain’t it? :slight_smile: