MrsBebel

#6

Examples of an Invigorator/Lathe project done years ago.

#7

What happend to it ?, i’ve looked at their site a few times since EI’s site has a link to it under the 3rd party stuff, can’t fine anything about an EI plugin :shrug:

#8

Didn’t it die with the 9/X upgrade…?

I don’t think there was ever a PC version anyway (I may be wrong there though).
Ian

PS. From Zaxwerks site… Also, it’s misspelt on the Electric Image links page as Zaxweks…

  • The Invigorator for ElectricImage or Maya
    These Invigorators function as sophisticated procedural modelers only. The rendering, surface materials, lighting and animation are handled by their host applications. Thus you can do anything to the models that you can with any other model in the host 3D program. Animate them, Deform them, run Dynamics on them, etc… However, you have to know how to use your host application to do these things.

As modelers they are especially geared to creating 3D graphics on a deadline. Every studio and production facility who has ever bought our Invigorator says it pays for itself. The Invigorator will remove hours of headaches and frustration; and help you to produce incredible amounts of title and logo graphics in a short amount of time.

It also gives you the ability to change the Illustrator input artwork which will update the whole model and you never have to change the texture mapping, animation keyframes or anything else. So creating multiple versions of the same animation is nothing more than switching out the original Illustrator file. Flexibility like this is required by the professional.

#9

Yes…its still available in the form of the “Pro Modeler” however, the sidegrade from EI’s plugin version is expensive. Like $250 for a sidegrade? A bit high I feel. Besides, I preferred the integrated solution in EI myself. I don’t want a seperate application. However, Zax knew that offering plugins for the 3D industry wasn’t where the money was. Any modeler can do what his program can do one way or another. He’s got it right offering it to the AE and Motion communities. Smarter. Still… Pro Animator is $695. Too much in my opinion.

No… it wasn’t available on the PC at the time because there was no PC version. :wink: and yes, it died with 2.9.2…though it should still work in OS 9 with any version of EIAS.

#10

Please explain what is a lathe feature and why it would be amazing

#11

Because I’ll know I’ll need to explain myself in that last post, yes, plugins for the 3D industry is still viable…though difficult. I am here to support 3rd party vendors, not come against them.

Zax knew the motion graphics industry is AE centric. I’m sure AE out sells EI by a factor of 10 to 1. It made logical sense for him to make the move he did. However, I’m sure it was because of EI that he got off the ground and could expand his business further.

#12

Zax offered two plugins for EI users. Invigorator and Vector Lathe.

Mrs. Bebel is very similar to Invigorator, but lacks some of its key functions. I could provide you with screen shots of Invigorator in action if you’d like to see. Invigorator was used for extruding and beveling Illustrator EPS files. Wonderful implementation. It would be cool if Bebel could take invigorator even further and offer lofting.

Vector Lathe operated off the same principle, however, instead of extruding objects like Invigorator, Lathe would revolve eps curves around an axis of choice to create geometry. Great for creating symetric objects.

#13

Here is a very basic example.

I would really love to see this plug in develop too!

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com

#14

Hi, Brian

>>Zax offered two plugins for EI users. Invigorator and Vector Lathe. <<

We remember both

>>Mrs. Bebel is very similar to Invigorator, but lacks some of its key functions. I could provide you with screen shots of Invigorator in action if you’d like to see. Invigorator was used for extruding and beveling Illustrator EPS files. Wonderful implementation. It would be cool if Bebel could take invigorator even further and offer lofting. <<

Mrs cannot operate with EPS file(s) directly, need to import it inside EI, it’s not always fast and pleasant. For all other: in our opinion the invigorator lacks most of Mrs key functions :slight_smile:

Lofting: we think the normal way is to have 2 plug-ins: extruding and lofting (but not one for both). Afaik NL has a loft plug-in (not familiar with it though)

>> Vector Lathe operated off the same principle, however, instead of extruding objects like Invigorator, Lathe would revolve eps curves around an axis of choice to create geometry. Great for creating symetric objects <<

Yes, the principle is the same, but, unlike extruding, we can’t see how revolving can use child objects. Without this “just revolve” looks not interested imho (too static)

#15

Hey guys…

Ok… here’s the deal. EIAS no longer has a modeler. Its either purchase a 3d party modeler or use something else. When you model, the top 3 modeling calls are usually:

  1. Extruding
  2. Revolving
  3. Lofting

If EIAS had this capability, it would go a long way until either an integrated modeler appeared in EIAS or EITG offers something else. Either way, its probably going to be a long time in coming. 3rd party modelers are just too simple a solution right now. However, some people don’t want to buy or learn another modeling package and having an integrated solution within EIAS is simply more productive. Less jumping between packages.

Zax summerized that more people actually have a 2d vector illustration program in their tool box rather than multiple 3d programs. This was smart thinking. I agree that Mrs. Bebel does possess more advanced functions over Invigorator. However, if I had the two in front of me to generate a quick logo, I’d use Invigorator every time. Why? Because of its EPS / vector input and its abilty to up rez the resulting model at any time. Likewise, a revolve and lofting tool based off of EPS curves would be so beneficial. Draw a cross section curve in Illustrator, save as EPS, bring into Bebel, and revolve around a user defined axis or extrude it, have multiple curves and loft them. Bang. Instant model. Use Bebel’s other advanced tools to make the model even more interesting.

You’re thinking that you need to parent child objects to Bebel as the only method of constructing an object…nope. What Bebel does now is impressive. It just lacks its logical other half. Importing curves in from the outside. Make Bebel the mini modeler it deserves to be. Let it Extrude, Revolve, and Loft bezier splines from an EPS file and I’ll guarantee you’ll have orders rolling in. I’ll be on the top of the list to pay for an upgrade.

#16

I absolutely agree, and you can put my name atop the order list.

now, this might be getting ahead of ourselves…
but what if that window in EI popped up and you could draw your
lines in that window, then wham bam thank you Konkeptione, you have your model.

Plus all the features currently in MrsBebel…

Should I put the crack pipe down?

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com

#17

Yes… that would be the best of all situations. If I really want advanced modeling, I’ll go into Maya or Silo.

#18

Hi, Brian

>>However, if I had the two in front of me to generate a quick logo, I’d use Invigorator every time. Why? Because of its EPS / vector input and its abilty to up rez the resulting model at any time<<

There is the alternate answer for this why: because you are familiar with Invigorator and used it with success many times (we’ll back to this aspect below)

>>Draw a cross section curve in Illustrator, save as EPS, bring into …<<

But it’s not a “Less jumping between packages” :hmm: As we remember, it was the “main” pretension to Invigorator in past

>>Likewise, a revolve and lofting tool based off of EPS curves would be so beneficial.<<
>>I’ll guarantee you’ll have orders rolling in<<

It would be really nice but let us (again) to disagree with you

Revolver: too simple. The example Mike showed tells very clear: there are no reasons to invest $ into a plug-in if it’s achievable in modeler and achievable enough easy, eventual Revolver plug-in just “has no trumps” and thus has no chances to be sold

Lofting.

>>have multiple curves and loft them. Bang. Instant model.<<

For loftting a distance to “bang” is much longer. With multiply curves a result is not instant. Besides this, another one serious problem arises. Please advice what to say users of NL plug-in? That our one is much better? That they should re-invest their money in a thing that does same task? That always get a big “resistance” and we’ve zero enthusiasm to overcome it

#19

Hey Guys…

I’m not trying to say one is superior to the other… I’m trying to suggest that combining the powers of Bebel and Invigorator and Vector Lathe would produce a superior product. You have the ability to do so in your hands. Why would you resist?

My familiarity with Invigorator isn’t my reason for choosing it over Bebel, if I was forced to choose. Invigorator wins, imho, because it can import splines from the outside quickly and very easily. I’m trying to suggest methods of reducing the EIAS problem of being an island and the fact that it has no modeling capabilities. Thankfully FBX is here…but I still think people want internal modeling capabilities within EIAS no matter how basic. Bebel could fill this need.

Its not about a plugin being too “simple”, but rather its about convience to the animator. Having the ability to lathe, extrude or loft an eps curve in EIAS is about convience. That’s the trump card. Being simple is the major selling point.

You stated: “Mrs cannot operate with EPS file(s) directly, need to import it inside EI, it’s not always fast and pleasant” … That’s the whole problem. Its not fast and pleasant.

If we go your route, what do we have to do? First buy a modeling package. Except for maybe Silo, most of them are going to be considerably more expensive than a plugin. Next, learn that modeling package. Then go into that modeling package, draw a curve, revolve or extrude whatever, bevel, export, (hopefully as a .fact if its supported) if not an .obj, consider potential UV coordinate problems, import into EIAS, texture and render.

The invigorator way. Draw a cross section in illustrator or any 2d program that can save out EPS files. Save. Launch EIAS, run plugin, instant model. Make it automatically generate UVs like Ubershape and there’s no fuss. Need more mesh resolution? Your way, go back to the modeler, re-tesselate or remodel and resave, then reimport into EIAS, copy keyframes if you have any animation already on the old object and the total time spent is considerable. Invigorator? Click the plugin and increase the number of faces. Done. No animation lost or needs to be copied. If you’re happy with the Invig model, you can always export out as a .fact, but part of the beauty of Invigorator was the fact that you could change the resolution with a click of a button. Uber shape follows the same principle. How annoying would it be if we wanted a sphere and we had to go into a 3rd party modeler to get one? Very annoying.

As for Northernlights, which plugin are you talking about? Im not aware of anything that NL offers that can do anything like Bebel or Invigorator/Lathe. Except maybe path plotter… so I guess that could handle lofting functions. I appreciate you wanting to be concerned for other plugin vendors and what other people have purchased, but we’re in a competitive market. You shouldn’t hesitate to create something better than what’s out there. You’re already competing with Northernlights by offering FlexPath. Its in direct competition with Contortionist. If Blair created Bebel, I’d be asking him to do the same thing.

Suggestions like these, I feel, are trying to increase the viability of the entire program. What’s one of the first major caveats of using EIAS? No modeler. That’s why we’re in the 3D Specialty applications section on CG Talk and not in with the “big boys”. (LW, Maya, Max, C4D etc) We’re competing against some seriously good packages out there and we’ve rested on Camera’s laurels too long. 3rd party plugin programmers like yourself are the key to keeping EIAS attractive until EITG can incorporate those missing technologies. If we make the mother package more viable, it sells more seats. More seats means more sales for you too.

#20

Yeap, although I use EI for Animators laurels too :wink:

I’ve already decided to buy Bebel at some point, It is a great plug-in, as several people have said, it is the closest thing EI has to a built in modeller (it creates fantastic geometry), it would just be even cooler (and worth more £€$) if it could deal with EPS files imported into Animator. I could use that. Of course, I realise it’s a heck of a lot of work for the programmers, but it would be such a time saver, and that, after all, is a big point in Mrs. Bebel, to stop you from having to go back to you’re modelling program…

Pro Animator capabilities in EI would be great, we already have the animator part… we just need the ‘Pro’ bit :slight_smile:
Ian

#21

Hi, Brian an Ian

>> As for Northernlights, which plugin are you talking about? Im not aware of anything that NL offers that can do anything like Bebel or Invigorator/Lathe.<<

But CableCraft looks like lofting…

>> Except maybe path plotter… so I guess that could handle lofting functions. I appreciate you wanting to be concerned for other plugin vendors and what other people have purchased, but we’re in a competitive market. You shouldn’t hesitate to create something better than what’s out there. You’re already competing with Northernlights by offering FlexPath. Its in direct competition with Contortionist. <<

Such competition easily can be not productive for both developers. And need to think twice (or more) before start it.

>>The invigorator way… <<

It sounds like (please correct us if we wrong): “You, guys, must learn from great Invigorator how to extrude. It would be better if you put your efforts in reanimating/improving of this awesome product instead of creating something yours (it’s named as “combining the powers”, but we see you just want to have “old good Invigorator” and nothing more). And it would be same successfull as 10 years ago”

Sorry, but in our opinion the Invigorator way is just obsolete. Why EPS is only one possible base of extrusion? Why the base cannot be animated? Why it’s only a plane shape, not any surface or even every facet? How about interactive profille edit, advanced caps etc.?

We’ve nothing against opinion like: “combo EPS + extrude is very (most) usable”, but EPS import should be solved in host.

>> it would just be even cooler (and worth more £€$) if it could deal with EPS files imported into Animator.<<

We understand you, Ian. Yes, host’s import is hmm… not always perfect, and in any case it would be helpful if a plug has a button sorta “Load EPS…”, right :slight_smile: ? But please understand us also: a plug-in should solve its main task instead of duplicating host’s functions like load models/textures.

So, sorry, gentlemen, but no EPS support.

#22

I agree:

EPS import in EIAS would be a good thing.
The new version of Maya has a AI vCS import feature AND if the original file is edited it is updated in Maya. Obviously there is a need for such features. (Wasn’t there an INV for Maya at one time?)
I like Mrs. Bebel and yes it would be cool if it could do this and other Invigorator type features. IMHO the foundation is there.
One thing I liked about Invigorator was you could turn on and off different parts of the EPS file and apply different FX all in the same plug.

#23

Igor, I am curious.

What would it take to get this project going?

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com

#24

Hi, Mike

Please explain what project you talk about?

#25

Hey Igors, I was trying to figure in my mind(non programming mind!) what would it take
for programmers to begin work on a plugin like we are talking about here.

The reason why I asked is because perhaps, we could (community wise) “hire” you guys to assemble this/upgrade/further develop MrsBebel.

Thanks for any info

Mike