MrRevolver

#81

Igors,

Ok… lets see.

  1. Graph resolution: Allow the graph to subdivide. Meaning the smaller the subdivision, the more grid squares we see. Its like the EIAS grid. Defines how many granger units to be in size. It would allow the user more grid squares to draw with.

  2. Line segment tool: If we can get it… that would be great. I’m mainly asking for it out of convience to the artist. Like I said, more natural for drawing. I believe its the same thing you’re already doing, but instead of adding points to an exisiting line by command clicking, the artist just simply draws the cross section.

  3. Capping. If you can get non planar capping, great. Works for me.

  4. U & V partial revolves. Ok, I’m used to dealing with Maya. Any NURBS curve that is drawn possesses its own U direction. When Maya revolves a curve you can create a partial revolve. This will generate a Subcurve node which possesses two values. Min and Max. This allows the artist to specificy where along the U direction of the curve to actually generate geometry. Min and Max range from 0 to 1. Need more explaination? I could screen capture a movie or more stills to illustrate the process.

#82

Hi, Brian

Clear now! Accepted

Also clear and accepted

Hmm… how? All is simple and clear if we draw “raster” lines, but it becomes very blurred/unclear for a poly-line with discrete set of points. Now it works as: “mouse down” is detected, then:

  • check if a graph point is picked (delete or drag it if so)
  • check if a hit is near to an existed line segment (and insert a new point if so - we know destination segment, so we know where to insert)
  • drag selection rectangle otherwise

Your scenario/algorithm? (note: algorithm is not a programming yet, so imho our question is correct :slight_smile: )

#83

:slight_smile:
I don’t really want to interrupt, everything seems to be going really well at the moment, just waiting on the next beta.

Brian, you’ve been doing an ace job of translating our unreasonable feature demmands into workable additions to the plug :slight_smile: Good man!

Igors… you’re actually doing it! :buttrock:
Ian!!

#84

Hmmm… this seems to be a language barrier thing again. Let’s see… how to explain this. I’m not asking you to exchange “raster” lines for “poly-lines” as a source. What I am asking for is the method in which points and line segments are drawn on the graph editor to change. Currently we command click on a single line segment. This adds a point. Need more points? Command click again. Once you have a point, you then drag it into position. To me, this is counter intuitive and isn’t like any other piece of drawing/cad/3D software out there. Its ok to use that method to add points later if necessary, but the typical method of drawing a line segment in nearly every 2d and 3d software package I’ve worked with is by clicking one point after the next in a linear progression. Is that more clear?

And oh… by the way… if you were to sneak in lofting into this plug via child objects and path2line… no one would complain. Right guys? :bounce:

#85

Raster would be a lot of problems for artist who draw the lines. To make a nice line with raster would be very difficult by hand in the computer. Artist would need a stylist pen and tablet for control. Users without this extra equipment would have to use a mouse. A mouse is a poor line drawing tool. With only a mouse, a curve can be perfect with beziers by clicking and adjusting tangency handles for a smooth resolution independent curve.

The straight vector line that Revoler has is nice, but would be impossible to do smooth lines without Encage. Again, the SDS smooths the rough points. Maybe Revolver can have a menu to switch line like EIAS animation curves, flat, hermite, bezier or fcurve algorithmns? Then artist can choose the interpolation method.

I like Encage but there’s lots to consider when using it for smoothing, especially when it comes to textures. Subviding a surface can cause wrinkles in UV textures.
With a bezier line, maybe there is still problems defining the resolution, or number of polygons but at least, once the polygon resolution have be created, the object may not need to be subdived again.

Considering EIAS doesn’t display bezier curves geometry, I can see how this is a big problem to program.

Right now, I like be able to create smooth curves with Encage, but bezier are more modern and standard way to work.

Maybe, you just need to cut and paste the resolution controls from Encage into Mr. Revolver? :slight_smile:

#86

Right.
:drool:
That would really be great! But lets leave that for later…

No harm in dreaming though :wink:

#87

Sorry, Brian, but not, still not clear. Add points to the line end? But what to do for insert a new point between 2 existed? Or to add a new one to the line start? Need to “switch draw mode” etc. Looks long and not elegant

We propose to “replace” this feature with 2 others:

  • multiply undo for graph drawing
  • eliminate the points count limitation (50 now)

That’s a good exchange, agree :smiley:

Oh, no, there is a lot of work with new features. We’ll start tomorrow or day after and need approximately 8-10 days (interface always eats a lot of time)

#88

Ok… I’ll give. Your proposal sounds good. I guess what I was trying to describe was the manner in which photoshop or illustrator draw lines with their pen tools. Its one consecutive click after another rather than inserting between points and moving. But I understand now that your method combines both the drawing function and the point selection function in a single tool. My way would require a drawing tool and a selection tool. I guess I’m just a creature of habit. What do you think guys?

Ok… I was just dreaming. :slight_smile: We’ll wait for v2.

#89

I sent out an email to Matt Hoffman that read:

“…I realize that EITG isn’t going to disclose whether or not EIAS will eventually possess its own internal modeling tools or if it will continue to rely on 3rd party programs. However, there is one thing in particular that could really help out the 3rd party plugin effort. Is there any way that Animator could possess the ability to draw 2D bezier or bspline open and closed line entities? Or even permit Animator to import .eps files? This would go a long way with plugins like Bebel, Revolver, Cable Craft, Pathfinder, etc… It could open up a huge number of plugin options for geometry generation and CV level animation. Blair and the Igors have devised methods to extract line entities from the animated path of a locator, but this is so unintuitive for the user. Advancing the timeline line in order to place a point on a curve is backwards from a modeling perspective. By simply adding 2D curve generation to animator, you can bet that it would be taken advantage of”.

Matt’s Response was:

“Its certainly is possible, technically. I think realistically, we are going to be heavily involved in the Mactel port for a while and can not consider this feature at this time.”

To which I responded:

“That’s kind of what I figured and that’s ok. If its not possible to add it to the 6.5r3 release, then please consider it for the v7 release and the Mactel port. Thank you.”

Personally, I think this is a good sign. Its obvious that the Mactel port must take priority. However, Matt doesn’t sound opposed to the idea and this is good. I will continue to remind him over the months. :wink: So until then, looks like we’re heading down the right road with our efforts.

#90

I’ve been thinking for a few posts now that I’d need to try this new modified version of drawing on the graph to comment on it… It sounds good (and the removal of the 50 point limit is a GREAT help).

I wasn’t entirely put out by the current plugin ‘front end’ but it really does need making more natural, so yes, lets try out the the new Igor-tastic method :slight_smile:
Ian

#91

Hi everybody,

I’m working a lot and appeared today to see How EIAS new Forum is going and I’m realllllly surprised with this forum and How users are dealing with developers to make excelent new tools!

Congratssssssss

Tomas Egger

#92

Well hopefully this week we’ll have beta 3 of Revolver… should provide some much needed additions. Stay tuned.

#93

Hello, gentlemen

MrRevolver beta 3 is here. New features:

  1. Sections feature (repeatable revolve)
  2. Caps U/V are added
  3. Animated RangeU feature
  4. Improved graph editor (zoom, pan, grid, multiply undo etc.)

Fixed bugs: error in vertices normals calculation, beta 3 produces “smoother” results if a few revolve steps are specified

Notes for beta-testers:

  • sorry, beta2 projects should be re-created, in view of numerous changes we cannot support betas compatibility

  • please read (at doc bottom) details how animation channels works

  • new samples - only one (attached image). The project is available (without large textures though)

Waiting for cool images/movies from you :slight_smile:

#94

Just woke up and saw the great news. I’ll send it out today when I get into work.

#95

Awesome. Will be done with a project and back on the scene to put it to use shortly.

#96

Revolver beta 3 has been seeded to the beta testers. Get to work gentlemen.

#97

Just a picture of the beta 3 interface for those interested.

#98

Hey Guys…

Just a couple of things on Beta 3.

First off… nice job guys… this is so helpful. This is gonna be a great addition to EIAS.

Revolver + Bebel + Encage = Happiness.

The idea of using Revolver as a mini line/surface editor with its “secret” function (Steps at Zero) is a wonderful idea. Now you can draw a shape in Revolver’s graph editor and feed it into other plugins. (Either another Revolver or into Mrs Bebel) Suddenly Bebel and Revolver are properly working together. :thumbsup: It would be nice if Bebel could eventually get its own cross section editor, but this certainly works for now. Great job. However…there’s one little thing I don’t like about your implimentation about this feature.

Revolver’s graph editor is divided into two parts. A light blue and light purple side, with a line drawn down the middle representing the revolve axis. When revolving, this is obviously necessary… however, I wish to use revolver to generate surfaces to extrude in Mrs. Bebel. Right now, you have to draw on just one side of the graph or the other. If you draw a cross section that breaks the axis, Bebel’s extrusions wind up going in two opposite directions. I bring this up because if someone wants to draw a cross section for Bebel to extrude…they’re going to want to use the entire drawing area… not just one side.

If you could include in the “secret” function a Mrs. Bebel compatibility mode button where the axis line in revolver can be ignored…well… that would be great. Otherwise, you have to move the cross section to one side of the axis or the other in order to obtain an extrude in a single direction and then the object’s pivot point is then either left or right of the object. No good.

Next, is it possible that when Revolver is first launched that the graph editor be a true square aspect ratio rather than stretched on the vertical? I always find myself adjusting Revolver’s graph editor back into a square aspect ratio in order to draw.

Finally…I’d like the ability to increase the cap’s mesh resolution for deformation purposes. The only way this can be done right now is to insert more points along the user defined cross section’s curve. This is logical and works well enough. However there is no method to insert these points quickly or evenly without snapping to the grid. (Thanks for the adjustable grid by the way… very nice) It would be great if there was a way to select two points in the editor and tell Revolver to divide the line between the two points with a user defined number of points. It doesn’t need to be fancy…it just makes inserting say 15 or 20 points considerably easier and faster. There… I promise… no more requests. (Unless you want to find a way to support holes in surfaces.)

Concerning your email on UV’s on caps. Personally, I think you would want them to be built separately don’t you? This would allow you the opportunity to place a separate texture on them quickly and easily. What were your ideas?

#99

Hi, Brian

Let’s discuss “Revolver to Bebel” aspects privately :slight_smile:

Understand, bit please count: bigger plug-in’s window hides EI windows that are necessary to view “Apply” results. And plug-in “remembers” its window size.

Agreed, points insertion is a rational feature in any case. Accepted. However, it cannot help too much with caps resolution :slight_smile:

Caps V (top and bottom) are generated as a single additional graph’s segment. Making them multi-segmented is not a problem but has no sense IMHO. For animated RangeU a single cap segment is what we need. Without RangeU we’ve more abilities to draw any segments we want, with same results as CapsV does but with full control.

CapsU - more graph points cannot help to have more resolution of CapsU surfaces interiors, here we need an adaptive triangulation. Sorry, that we cannot implement (inside MrRevolver). Enough complex and, in other hand - not too much usable IMHO. A rational caps deforming, hmm… what is this? :slight_smile:

Interesting! But only if it would be easy and intuitive for user. We’ve no ideas, your solutions/propositions?

Yes, the caps are areas where UV’s are shrinked/distorted too much. It’s possible to generate caps’ UV’s separately. However, it has its negatives: default texture assigning in EI will not work well, user needs to adjust map(s) manually to each UV piece. From other side, caps mapping can be solved in standard way (“negative Z”). Hmm… looks like 50/50 (positives/negatives)

#100

No :slight_smile: It’s just a bug (incorrect vertices normals can be viewed in texture window). Fixing…