MrRevolver

#41

Creating smoother profile curves within the cross section editor currently require using more linear line segments. Along with the smooth controls you can create a reasonably smooth curve for revolving. I agree its more difficult and ultimately curve generation in the cross section editor is really important. Until then, child objects for rotation is the only other option.

#42

Your fine by listing your findings here.

Undo support would be nice.

I definitely agree with a reset profile button. Very important.

Multiple profiles would be cool, but you can save and load your cross sections. Right now, you’ll need to build your own profiles. They should be available to share.

Templates would be nice. Right along with grid snapping and adjustable grid resolution.

Spiral threading by offsetting the revolve would be great.

Keep the ideas coming.

#43

Thanks.

Well, fresh out the gate, and in combination with Encage, I’m impressed. Building Geometries directily inside EI has the huge advantage of non-discrepancies with fact file imports and tesselation. What’s nice is the two sets for Camera and Animator, like Encage or a proxy model.

I will see what I can do with the cross sections, when I look at this again.

ONLY Mr. REVOLVER for geometry. Encage was use to smooth it.

#44

Fast Occlusion render. ENCAGE

Encage handled the smoothing. It’s nice that while modeling you can click APPLY and it update the new changes from Revolver in the EI viewport.

#45

Nicely done Alonzo.

Looks like Encage is going to be in my purchase list. Its also my intent to convince the Igors to provide additional toolsets…namely lofting tools. When combined with Bebel, we should be able to model 75% of most hard surface things. If we can get a cross section editor within Bebel too…that would be great. That way users will be able to draw items for extrusion…but one thing at a time.

In the meanwhile… if EITG wants to contribute, I have one major request that would go a really looong way. Give us a method to generate modeling curves within Animator. Those combined with Bebel and Revolver/Lofter would go a long way.

#46

Thanks Brian. I understand that is acronym for Application Programming Interface, but that’s about it. Can you explain to me the big problem with EIAS’s API that everyone seems to complain about. How is it that no one has access to it? How is it that EI development team would limit access to it? And why? It’s not like someone can give EI a virus if it was open. I understand that EI could is old, maybe they don’t want to show their old code?

When I beta tested for Ramjac’s Expressionist, I was intrumental in getting RamJac and EI talking about access by merely getting them to talk to each other. The problem was merely inter-office communication. The right hand didn’t know what the left was doing. After they shook hands, all sorts of things opened up for XP users.

I don’t get it, I know Matt Hoffman to be and extremely open to anything that makes EIAS more functional. What gives?

When you get time. Thanks.

YES. ENCAGE IS A MUST. also good for Zbrush Displament mapping.
Here’s the Lamp without Encage. Same scene.

This is the first time I have modeled this fast. Just a few point and bam. I was done. It was so interactive It felt really different to model so fast. I almost felt like one of these CG Talk Speed Modelers hanging in these forums. LOL

However I did notice some limitation in the amount of points I could use to draw a curve. In most cases, very few points are needed.

Again. this have been a very pleasant relief. I may use this scene for a render test.
You guys keep up the good work

Lastly, I would perfer to see Igor make a fast pelting type UV Editor for EIAS. Something like Headus 3D tools. I know they can do it. Maybe they can rebirth TEXTURIZER.

#47

What we absolutely need is a direct .eps import in EIAS. I am asking it for a long time but things don’t seem to move. The new Igors purpose to be able to transform EIAS paths in curves readable by Revolver isn’t the best solution (but is it a solution that they can implement for their new plug-in, so I understand). As .eps import function was part of the Modeler, why couldn’t they add a part of the existing code to EIAS or combined it with Transporter? Open Transporter, select an .eps file, save as .fact and do what you want in EIAS. I think I’m dreaming cause EIAS world is a bit slow to evoluate. Hopefully russians are standing at the corner to make things changing.

#48

I’ll try to answer your question, but I’m afraid its probably best left to EITG to answer. I am not a programmer. I just have a lot of experience in using 3D applications. The plugin and Shader APIs are a specific set of tools and instructions that allows third party developers to develop software that can access certain “hooks” into Animator’s internal architecture and code. I’ve seen a number of various advancements in the APIs over the years. Some are cosmetic (like adding slider bars, interactive previews, etc) while others actually affect the way data is accessed to and from the plugins to the host program. What makes the API potentially troublesome is that 3rd party programmers are confined to what the API permits them to do. That is my layman’s understanding of what’s going on. I would also care to guess that EIAS’ infrastructure may still possess code that, at the time, was never intended to be accessed by outside users. (Despite the first major moderization effort which we commonly know as Universe).

Once a particular infrastructure has been put into place, it can be difficult to just simply “open” it up. The fact that EIAS was written over 16 years ago is probably testimony to this. Pull one thread, and you unwind a number of things. Another issue may be, like you mentioned, is a failure to identify a need. When working at ILM, I helped TripleDTools develop Fyreworks. There was a specific requirement that was needed by the plugin to accomplish a specific task. It didn’t exist. Like you, when I brought it forward to Matt Hoffman, they were quick to make the changes necessary…but unless we pointed it out, it may have continued to go unnoticed. Its not like EITG was holding something back, it just didn’t exist.

Applications like Maya approach the whole process a little bit differently. In addition to having an API, Maya possesses MEL (Maya Embedded Language). MEL allows you to:

create custom effects
write macros
execute MEL commands that lack a corresponding user interface *** Very important
customize the user interface
bypass the user interface
enter exact values for attributes
change defaults settings not included in preference settings
customize Maya for a specific scene

For every call or function done in Maya, the program records a specific event. Its non-programmers way of getting into the program. Take a look:

sphere -p 0 0 0 -ax 0 1 0 -ssw 0 -esw 360 -r 1 -d 3 -ut 0 -tol 0.01 -s 8 -nsp 4 -ch 1;objectMoveCommand;
select -cl ;
select -r nurbsSphere1 ;
move -r 0 0 7.704333 ;
rotate -r -os -65.882413 18.667442 -78.798092 ;
delete;

You can pretty much figure out what’s going on. Create a sphere at a specific place and size. Deselect and then select it again. Move it to a new location. Rotate it a certain number of degrees, and then delete it.

In Electric Image, we don’t have this much versatility. Xpressionist went a long way to allow us the abilty to tap into animation channel data, so we can affect that, but we have no internal scripting language that allows us to get into the guts of what Animator is doing. I don’t know if its even possible without another major overhaul of the program. Maybe during the port to Intel, EITG will add more goodies for v7. However, we all know resources must be carefully utilized. Xpressionist, ultimately, needs to be integrated into the host’s internal architecture rather than routing it through the plugin API. Perhaps then XP can be given more tools to tap into functions that users never had access before.

As programs age, they either need to evolve or die. Programs must get reinvented in order to stay fresh. I believe EITG is doing this, one system at a time. There have been multiple advancements in the program…but we all know EITG is a small company. At some point, it falls back on them to take the steps necessary to stay competitive, however, as I’ve mentioned before…we the users have a responsibility as well. Continue to foster communication with the company. Write them and tell them what you want. It may seem to fall on deaf ears at times, but that’s not always true. I can attest to that. As our community grows stronger, EITG grows stronger. This gives them more opportunity to implement new tools and we both benefit.

#49

Thanks Brian. I think I really understand now especially when you related it to MEL. Now I see that MEL is an interface within itself, and not just a hole to look into Maya’s guts.
I understand now, why doesn’t exist in EIAS and that though Expressionist has greatly intensified EI’s capablity, there’s still more it can do.

I have often poked the sore issues in EIAS’s code in regards to rigging, Z depth bones, but at the same time, I know they have to be very frugal with programming power.

All the programmers and writers are in my opinion are very talented for always coming up with solutions for keep pace with it’s users needs. I do my best to cheer them on as well as blow the whistle things that don’t jive. I pretty much found a voice as a beta tester. It keeps me update as well and I try to share my finding to keep other abreast.

One day, I envision an EI where all the 3rd Party developers goal is to buy into EI so their plug can be directly intergrated.

Then all of them will contribute to rewriting the old code and bringing everything up to day so dynamics and more effects are psuedo- Real Time :slight_smile:

#50

On a technical note, when the end points are on the revolve axis, is the object closed?

I’m attempting my first SSS render and so far, nothing.

#51

Gentlemen, we want to ask you about more order for the discussion. Now this thread runs far away from MrRevolver. We see a lot of themes in full disorder (typical situation if Alonzo becomes active :wink: ).

The limitations of EI plug-ins/shaders API, opening EI for development, rebirth Texturizer and UV’s generation etc. - all these are interesting themes, we also have what to say and would be happy to support discussions, but… in normal order, with a separate thread for each.

Here (in this thread) can we back to profile edit problem? Today we post a simple free plug-in as an alternate way/solution. Soon.

#52

I agree!
I switched off for a couple of pages there :wink:

With regards to profile editing:

  1. Encage is the perfect solution for the smoothing of points, I am having some great fun with this at the moment, i’ll post the results later today. It isn’t ideal, but it does look great.
  2. For the editing of the profile I would really like to see a ‘zoom’ feature for the profile editor (or a choice of 100% zoom or 200% zoom).
  3. If that isn’t possible, snapping would be nice :slight_smile: If zooming is possible, snapping would still be nice.

I think that is enough for now, lets try to keep the posts short and simple! :wink:
Ian

#53

Ok, here is the promised free plug-in. The attached archive contains Path2Line versions for Mac and PC and a draft doc. A role/usability of this utility isn’t clear yet. At least it allows to draw a line in all EI windows in 3D space (not a flat cross-section only).

Please take your time for Path2Line and then (with new experience) let’s back to internal graph’s problems :wink:

#54

I’m so bummed that my schedule hasn’t allowed me time to dive into this yet.

Everything you guys are posting looks real good.
Keep it going!
Alonzo, great samples that you have posted!

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com

#55

No and (maybe) it should be changed. Now the plug-in automatically shifts points are located nearby revolve axis (the tolerance is 5.0e-5). It provides a monotonous topology (quads only). Other possible solution is to weld these vertices. It guarantees “no any holes” but requires quadrangles/triangles mix.

About MrRevolver + Encage. Yes, we also have found this combo is often much more effective than increasing of revolve resolution. But from our side it would be not correct to use this thread for promo of another product :slight_smile:

#56

Here are a couple of images…

A picture frame, aww.
And a light post, made with Revolver and abused by the Catmul-Clark SDS algorithms :slight_smile:

Ian

#57

Yes… sorry about the run away thread. However, when certain questions like that become public, I feel its my obligation to at least address them for the sake of the one asking and for the sake of everyone reading. Unanswered questions shed unnecessary doubt about the host program. Although I am not an offical EITG reprsentative, I am an ambassador of sorts. I never want to leave the impression that EITG doesn’t give a flip about the customer because that isn’t true. Alonzo’s questions point to the very foundational issues of why are we making this plugin in the first place. I will work to curtail unnecessary banter and limit the educational factor. :thumbsup:

#58

Hi, Brian

We 100% agree: Alonzo touches a series of interesting and important things. And it’s absolute normal if a discussion involves other things (it only means that discussion is actual, not abstract).

But, in our opinion, it’s not a good idea to join all in a one single thread - it only makes this thread much harder to read/understand. We personally are very confused with what we should answer - only a few people have “multi-processor” brain :wink:

So, Alonzo, how about: “new serious theme == new thread” ? :cool:

#59 
   Hahah. Igors this is not the first time you have politely told me to "shut up" LOL. Igors tell me I talk too much in my own post in postforum haha. Don't worry about it, I know Igors for a very long time. haha.  It could be worst. haha But always with good intent.
   Yes, I am the culprit. I will try to stay only on topic, and not dreams about EIAS financial structure. API, and stuff. This is only beta testing for one plugin. I should focus on it and making my posts legible for testing.

 It's important to me so thanks Brian but for the purpose of Igors checking info for bugs and feature, I will save the Igors the time of sifting through long posts that they can't immediately put to use. The topics are relevant, but not the task at hand.
   Haha. My apologies I get carried away.

And if I need to liason my concerns to other factions of EI, I will do so while Igors are busy programming. :stuck_out_tongue:

   (Texturizer...that had to be the last straw) LOL.
#60

It really needs a zoom for when more room is needed to draw a profile past the extents of the box. A zoom and/or pan.