Moving on after A:M

#21

Complaining about holes in XSI just after one month of usage and after he used A:M his whole life ? Now that’s funny :slight_smile: ! What are he complaining about ? “Were are my render artefacts ?!”, “Why dont my scene files get corrupt !?”, “The viewport speed is to faaast !”, “I want to see the splash screen more often !”, “Why dont i get banned at the support forum ?!”
I know it’s the David vs Goliath thingy … and i dont like that ! In the end it’s the result that matters and nothing else !

#22

Originally posted by violet903
I’ve heard you have to…

You heard so you don’t KNOW. Please don’t come in here an troll, your argument is kinda pointless since you don’t use A:M so have no basis of comparison other than other people’s opinions.

As for amature, have you tried silo (www.silo3d.com) this little team of friends in a garage have made more progress with their modeling tools in their first year of business than most of the big boys have made in twice the time. Amature does not mean less powerful.

Wegg:
I just found that I can save my animations to BVH format which lightwave has 2 plugins for. a BVH to skelegon converter in modeler and a motion capture plugin in layout that will use the BVH format that can be applied to a rig. Have you tried this?

Not only is hash alone in the the way it looks for images and other files but the file format is like html in that if you open a new AM model in an old copy of AM it will still read it and just ignore the bits it doesn’t understand. This is a pretty cool feature. It also helps that all their file formats are text so they are easy to dig into to get information out if the file corrupts.

other question:
As for animation tools Max, lightwave, C4D and messiah make you go through a few hoops to get a character ready for animation. None of them are as easy as AM.

I got Lightwave 8 and they added IK Booster. what it basicaly does is turn it’s bone functions into the way AM works out the box. I learned this when I cracked AM open again to try the BVH idea out and remembered how the bones worked.

Modeling tool wise I’d say Silo3d. Its a really fast poly modeler and powerful and only $109. They are adding animation tools to their software for version 2 so if you ask nice they’ll probably implement some of Hash’s tools.

Animation wise I guess I would pick lightwave since the community is pretty good and if I can import my animation from AM then you get the best of both worlds.

#23

Ok kids lets not feed the Troll shall we?

-David Rogers

#24

I think the troll should be fed, every user forum needs one:-) As long as it’s only one.
Although I disagree with virtually all her comments, her presence does spark debate. In fact, during the course of this discussion, I’ve learnt a couple more reason why AM is still the best animation package out there.
Moreover, I enjoy hearing the occasional gripe about the program, it is afterall why this forum was set up…an exercise in free speech.
I guess this all makes me the forum shit stirrer.
:blush:

#25

A pet forum troll? I doubt we need one… i mean if you want to stir up some gripes we have wegg right? And at the very least he’s not a prick.

-David

#26

True, I’ll settle for Wegg, at least he knows what he’s talking about.

#27

Wegg:
I just found that I can save my animations to BVH format which lightwave has 2 plugins for. a BVH to skelegon converter in modeler and a motion capture plugin in layout that will use the BVH format that can be applied to a rig. Have you tried this?

Yup. Tried than many times. The problem is that Animation Master is actually far more advanced than most other apps in the way it interpolates keyframes. Most other apps are still using something like “heading bank pitch” or Y rotate, X rotate, Z rotate etc. This causes what is called Gimble lock. AM doesn’t have gimble lock. (as much) So when you animate in AM everything looks kick ass. When you export that into another package just using raw BVH, everything jacks up. There would need to be some kind of intermediary conversion or plugin to control that.

If your recomending an external “hobby” modeler then have a look at Wings3D. Especially due to its support for Animation Master model exporting.

#28

I second the wings 3d thing.

It has a very different way of working to AM in many respects. It is a box modeller and there are no widgets. But in a way, this is a good reason to use it as it makes you realise that the most important thing is your ability as an artist. You might spend a whole load of time scratching your head (I did) but with effort you will break through like one of those shits that is all crusty and hard at the beginning (like a plug) and sloppy after that… err sorry for that analogy there - not sure if it quite worked.

Oh, one thing that I learned also is that edge loops are still something that you have to think of in box modelling (particularly wings) and AM is a great way for disciplining your way to think of these.

Ps: Wegg, I get your point about getting the tool for the job but for bums like me the money doesn’t flow to easy… wait… I can feel an analogy coming on…

PPS: Violet, I don’t feel that I know a person here until I have seen an example of their work. Could you show us one please? Just one!

#29

WITHOUT QUESTION. . . if you don’t make house payments from income generated doing 3D. . . no one should ever need any other app than Animation Master. Its got everything you need for a kick ass price. Its only when you have to deal with other wankers using “industry standards” that you have to bite the bullet and conform.

Money. . Bum. . . flow. . .

<te he!>

#30

I like how for XSI and Cinema 4D $2000 is considered a steal. I can’t imagine ever paying that! Do they offer financial support? Can you pay incrementally (‘yes, that’s right folks, just 100s of easy payments of 39.99 a month!’)?

heh.

A:M is truly closer to what the big boys software will cost in the future. It will probably come down to like 500 eventually, once they notice that they’re charging almost as much as a cheap used car for a digital paintbrush. It’s very cliched, but it’s not about the software, it’s about the artist.

(has anyone noticed that violet903 has not tried to rebut any of the facts listed for the last approx. 3-4 posts? heh)

#31

Originally posted by violet903
I know it’s the David vs Goliath thingy … and i dont like that ! In the end it’s the result that matters and nothing else !

Cool, so lets see some of your results?

Most people listen to JoeW because he’s used numerous packages in an actual production environment (that goes for Wegg as well) and he gladly shares his knowledge with others. So when he mentions issues with Soft and AM we tend to listen. Yeah he’s new to Soft, but he damned well knows his way around a 3d package.

Personally I listen to Joe because he has incriminating photos of me with a sheep and 20 gallons of pudding. :stuck_out_tongue:

#32

Originally posted by Wegg
bla bla … Most other apps are still using something like “heading bank pitch” or Y rotate, X rotate, Z rotate etc. This causes what is called Gimble lock. AM doesn’t have gimble lock. (as much) So when you animate in AM everything looks kick ass.

Thanks for mentioning that, Wegg. That clears something up for me. For a long time I’ve noticed how animators would go on and on about “gimble lock.” Jeff Lew devotes precious minutes to this issue, on his training DVD. But I’ve always used AM, and so it always seemed to me that gimble lock was an overblown issue. Of course, secretly, I was afraid that maybe I just was not smart enough to understand how grave this gimble lock problem really was. For me it only seemed to crop up if I switched a bone’s Quaternion Rotation drivers to Eular drivers. I now see that AM has been shielding me from a lot of grief.

What is Messiah like? Does Messiah have Quaternion rotations, like AM does?

Sincerely,

Carl Raillard

#33

Wegg what about using it the same way that motion capture is done. in LW make a rig and get it working right. Then use the imported rig’s bones as goals. will have to experiment. They finally added some more rotational plugins to switch the euler to quaterian rotations so this may work as well (LW 8)

I agree that the price will come down just because you got guys like never center making silo and Bjorn doing wings3d for free and all the other sub $500 apps that are slowly popping up and giving the big boys a run for their money.

It make take a while though.

Cinema is only $600 for the basics and for a few hundred more you can get mocca the animation module. Not a huge amount. But it is nothing like AM with fur/particles etc out the box.

It’s hard to beat AM’s feature set without blowing 2 grand.

#34

What is Messiah like? Does Messiah have Quaternion rotations, like AM does?

Messiah is pretty cool. Very fast realtime feedback, good support and the fact that there are plugins for LW, Max, Maya, C4D makes it REALLY appealing. They did put Quaternion rotations in there but. . . they are still pretty sloppy compared to AM’s. You should only ever consider Messiah if you HAVE to play nice with other studios in team projects.

#35

Wegg what about using it the same way that motion capture is done. in LW make a rig and get it working right. Then use the imported rig’s bones as goals. will have to experiment. They finally added some more rotational plugins to switch the euler to quaterian rotations so this may work as well (LW 8)

Then you have to figure out how to get everything scaled down to Lightwave’s microscopic scale. . . and deal with Lightwave’s weight mapping etc etc. If your spending DAYS of billable client time on getting a connection between the two to save a few hours animating. . . your doing something wrong. Just get Messiah if its that damn important.

Or bug Hash Inc. :wink:

I like doing that.

“There is a whole other world out there. . .”

#36

no it’s not billable time.

I’m just one of those guys who likes to pound on his software till screams for mercy. Usually I learn a few things in the process.

Sounds like messiah may be the easiest path.

thanks

#37

Originally posted by pequod
I think the troll should be fed, every user forum needs one:-) As long as it’s only one.
Although I disagree with virtually all her comments, her presence does spark debate. In fact, during the course of this

discussion, I’ve learnt a couple more reason why AM is still the best animation package out there.
Moreover, I enjoy hearing the occasional gripe about the program, it is afterall why this forum was set up…an exercise in

free speech.
I guess this all makes me the forum shit stirrer.

Yippee ! (putting pequod to Buddy List)

Originally posted by pequod
True, I’ll settle for Wegg, at least he knows what he’s talking about.

BOO ! (putting pequod to Ignore List) :slight_smile:

Originally posted by grafikimon
[B]…As for amature, have you tried silo (www.silo3d.com) this little team of friends in a garage have made more

progress with their modeling tools in their first year of business than most of the big boys have made in twice the time.

Amature does not mean less powerful…[/B]

Thanks for the link grafikimon ! I enjoyed the forum at silo3d (http://www.silo3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1220)
Even the silo users making fun of A:M : "Just avoid Hash’s Animation:Master if you’re on a Mac.It’s unstable enough in the PC world, but Mac is just horrible, “Still that bad ??? Even with the new version out their ???” …

Originally posted by John Keates
PPS: Violet, I don’t feel that I know a person here until I have seen an example of their work. Could you show us one please?

Just one!

I show you one PERFECT model you will NEVER,EVER be able to model in Animation Master and thats no lie !

No HOLES !

What did you expect ? But nice try John :slight_smile: !

Originally posted by BNicolucci
…Most people listen to JoeW because he’s used numerous packages in an actual production environment…

And i thought they just staring at his boobs pictures !

Originally posted by zero2zillion
(has anyone noticed that violet903 has not tried to rebut any of the facts listed for the last approx. 3-4 posts? heh)

Sorry about that ! I had to troll in the poser forum - there are such pigs out there :slight_smile: !

#38

I always find CG groupies fascinating. They talk the talk so well. They know all the terms. . . they read all the forums. . . know all the players often more than the actual people IN the industry itself. But 9 times out of 10 they haven’t accomplished a single piece of art or animation. Not one. They just love participating in the struggle of finding the right tools. They love to throw in opinions and regurgitate other people’s misgiving about this or that. I’m sure every industry has them but. . . man the 3D world seems to really draw them out.

#39

my theory goes like this: 3D and the internet came of age in about the same time frame, and both are populated by people with a technological bent.

The internet has fostered the “i can be a jackoff” mentality with it’s convenient impersonal text based interaction and virtual anonymity.

Unfortunately this group of people has a wide branch that finds 3D fascinating and clings to the false promise that the computer can take the effort/skill out of creating art.

Most of them are still positive that if only the perfect tool existed they would be artistic… no one on this forum of course :rolleyes:

-David

#40

No Voilet, I didn’t expect you to show any of your work. In order for a person to get good at art they have to be capable of self criticism.

Oh, looky here:

An AM sphere that renders fine from whatever angle.

Actually there are several different approaches to closing off objects in AM. Granted, I found hash patches a little odd when I first started using them but you just have to get used to these kind of quirks that exist in all packages (but then you wouldn’t know that because all you can do is render a sphere).

I would like to know what exactly it is that you get out of all of this. Remember that a good proportion of the people here have spoken their minds about Hash in the past and many have gotten chucked off the old list at some point. Plus we actually know what it is like to use the program.

You seem to think that you are telling us things that we don’t know but I havn’t seen a single comment from you that has in any way educated me. Do you think that it is hard to get peoples wind up? Anyone could go onto any forum and start spouting the kind of chugwash that you do and they would get some kind of reaction.

There is an old saying: “The more you know, the more you know you don’t know what you know”

But then you have a PHD or whatever so I guess you must know how clueless you are.