Moving on after A:M

#40

No Voilet, I didn’t expect you to show any of your work. In order for a person to get good at art they have to be capable of self criticism.

Oh, looky here:

An AM sphere that renders fine from whatever angle.

Actually there are several different approaches to closing off objects in AM. Granted, I found hash patches a little odd when I first started using them but you just have to get used to these kind of quirks that exist in all packages (but then you wouldn’t know that because all you can do is render a sphere).

I would like to know what exactly it is that you get out of all of this. Remember that a good proportion of the people here have spoken their minds about Hash in the past and many have gotten chucked off the old list at some point. Plus we actually know what it is like to use the program.

You seem to think that you are telling us things that we don’t know but I havn’t seen a single comment from you that has in any way educated me. Do you think that it is hard to get peoples wind up? Anyone could go onto any forum and start spouting the kind of chugwash that you do and they would get some kind of reaction.

There is an old saying: “The more you know, the more you know you don’t know what you know”

But then you have a PHD or whatever so I guess you must know how clueless you are.

#41

John : I really would like so see some wireframes from your sphere and also some closeups of the poles :rolleyes: !? One thing every A:M user have to learn about his software “of choice” is that nothing is really perfect in A:M and i don’t think i’m telling you anything new here !

Wegg : I’m using Cinema 4D since Version 6 but switched to XSI mainly because i have to use it at work ( imagine that :wink: ! ) and i fell in love with it ! I don’t have to look for the (nearly) perfect tool because i already found it !

I dont have anything against A:M for personal usage ( or better as a toy to play with :slight_smile: ) if you get it not to crash every 5 minutes. You can learn the basics of character animation and make funny little cartoon animations with it (maybe). But i believe it has REALLY no place in production work and nothing and nobody can convince me from the opposite. It’s funny that the biggest defenders of A:M have switched a long time ago to make a living. And the rest of PROs should be glad to have other 3d packages that make the dirty work that A:M can’t do.

If you have the time visit http://www.rustboy.com ! Everything there is done with Infini-D ! Does this quality work mean that we all should switch to Infini-D ? Some artists like to be challenged and they want to prove that they are able to make top notch art even with the cheapest software available. This doesn’t improve the software and nobody should be fooled by that ! If you want to get a job in the CG business you better learn the software everyone is using and dont waste your time trying to prove something. Its not about individuality but productivity ! And pequod, i hope you’re not learning the wrong things from me again !

#42

And now i’m off, making front page art with Notepad :wink: !

#43

This doesn’t improve the software and nobody should be fooled by that ! If you want to get a job in the CG business you better learn the software everyone is using and dont waste your time trying to prove something. Its not about individuality but productivity !

Wow. Just wow. Men (or women) like this will never be great. That is probably about the saddest thing I can say. Middling talent at the best I’m guessing and no imagination.

I gotta throw in with Wegg on his last group of comments.

Edit: PS. Whatever happened to nerazzi? He was a bit of a gadfly himself, but at least he had the talent to prove that he knew what he was talking about.

#44

Originally posted by violet903
John : I really would like so see some wireframes from your sphere and also some closeups of the poles :rolleyes: !? One thing every A:M user have to learn about his software “of choice” is that nothing is really perfect in A:M and i don’t think i’m telling you anything new here !

Polygon’s have their own can of worms in terms of subtle “glitches”. It wasn’t untill the advent of Sub-D surfaces that polygons even came CLOSE to the surface quality of AM. And even then most sub-D models tend to look a little “mushy” if not done right. Just like AM’s models look funky and lumpy if you aren’t careful.

Originally posted by violet903 Wegg : I’m using Cinema 4D since Version 6 but switched to XSI mainly because i have to use it at work ( imagine that :wink: ! ) and i fell in love with it ! I don’t have to look for the (nearly) perfect tool because i already found it ![/B]

Yada yadda yada. Show us something ya poser!

[i]I dont have anything against A:M for personal usage ( or better as a toy to play with :slight_smile: ) if you get it not to crash every 5 minutes. You can learn the basics of character animation and make funny little cartoon animations with it (maybe). But i believe it has REALLY no place in production work and nothing and nobody can convince me from the opposite. It’s funny that the biggest defenders of A:M have switched a long time ago to make a living. And the rest of PROs should be glad to have other 3d packages that make the dirty work that A:M can’t do.[/B]

The crashing every 5 minutes ended YEARS ago. I have been using Animation Master in production environments since 1995. At times it REALLY SUCKED!. . I agree. But those times are now a bad memory. A:M is back. It wasn’t until VERY recently that most other apps cought up to a point that allowed there to be ANY choice in my mind.

[i]If you have the time visit http://www.rustboy.com ! Everything there is done with Infini-D ! Does this quality work mean that we all should switch to Infini-D ? Some artists like to be challenged and they want to prove that they are able to make top notch art even with the cheapest software available.[/B]

EXACTLY! THATS THE WHOLE POINT! With A:M you get into a “zone.” All the tools are there in one elegant app. It may not be the absolute BEST tool for all environments but it is more than enough to let creative artists express themselves inexpensivly.

[i]This doesn’t improve the software and nobody should be fooled by that ! [/B]

Nope they shouldn’t. And with Hash’s new open community. . . I don’t think anyone is any more. That WAS one of my biggest gripes as well.

[i]If you want to get a job in the CG business you better learn the software everyone is using and dont waste your time trying to prove something. Its not about individuality but productivity ! And pequod, i hope you’re not learning the wrong things from me again ! [/B]

Ooo man your brain is like putty in the hands of advertizers. Your head would explode if you walked into Siggraph’s show room floor.

Just so you know. . . there aren’t two studios in the state I am currently living in that are using the same tools. I know of Maya teams, Lightwave teams, Mari teams, LOTS of Max teams. . . one HUGE Animation Master house that eclipses them all. . . and one silly group of poor buggers still using all Macs. . .

They all get paid to do wha they love. . .

Learning one app well doesn’t get you any further than the next guy who has learn’t his app. Its all about if you can bring it to the table when needed.

So. . . you wanna show us something?

#45

Ok, the sphere in the first image had holes at the poles. So what? Nobody would ever see them. If you want an example of how it can be done without holes then here’s one:

It comes out a little lumpy but only a little and I could probably work on it. I usually don’t come up against this problem because I am not really into balls. Maybe you have a fixation on them? Should I add some hairs on there for you or would this make them too imperfect?

Yes, I wouldn’t mind some more modelling tools or polygon support beyond props but they will do for now.

Ok, I am going to stop this now as I am getting bored and have other things to do.

One last thing though: SHOW US A GOD DAMN PICTURE! Just a sketch will do! Or perhaps you would like to render a perfect chrome ball on a perfect checker floor?!

#46

I really would like so see some wireframes from your sphere and also some closeups of the poles !? One thing every A:M user have to learn about his software “of choice” is that nothing is really perfect in A:M and i don’t think i’m telling you anything new here !

I’ll bite.

sphere.jpg845x839

Renders perfectly.
Want a closer view? It’s hole is smaller than a pore in a rubberball. In some ways it could be argued that its more perfect.

heh.

Zack

#47

Unfortunately this is a bit low quality (I didn’t feel like re opening photoshop… so I just used paint. lol)

sphere.gif845x839

But it renders perfectly, you get the point.

#48

Originally posted by Wegg
Polygon’s have their own can of worms in terms of subtle “glitches”.

None that make your work totally unusable !

Originally posted by Wegg
It wasn’t until the advent of Sub-D surfaces that polygons even came CLOSE to the surface quality of AM.[/B]

Yeah, why use the telephone when we have our pigeons :wink: !

Originally posted by Wegg
Just like AM’s models look funky and lumpy if you aren’t careful.[/B]

Lets face it, Hash can’t handle their own creation ! No appropriate modelling tools, uv mapping sucks, no working import & export and the rendering is awful ! And always the same lousy excuse : “Sorry but we have the superior technology so we cant give you the basic tools you know from other packages because we have no clue how to do it !” The uber hash patches will get us nowhere !

Originally posted by Wegg
Yada yadda yada.[/B]

Dinky winky doo !

Originally posted by Wegg
The crashing every 5 minutes ended YEARS ago.[/B]

Nope !

Originally posted by Wegg
EXACTLY! THATS THE WHOLE POINT! With A:M you get into a “zone.” All the tools are there in one elegant app. It may not be the absolute BEST tool for all environments but it is more than enough to let creative artists express themselves inexpensivly.[/B]

If you choose A:M you also choose against ALL other existing packages ! If it’s just a hobby and A:M would be more reliable then it would be fine, i agree.

Originally posted by Wegg
And with Hash’s new open community. . .[/B]

Dont be so sure about that ! (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=129186)

I’m not saying that you should learn only one software. All major packages have Personal Learning Editions freely available. And
you can also get recognised as an artist by using “big packages”. BTW i’ve been to 2 Siggraph shows already :slight_smile: !

#49

And you asked for a closeup:

hole.gif845x839

Just to give you some reference for how small this is:

. It took me 30 seconds of scrolling out to be able to see the full sphere again

. I made a spline the same lenght as the diameter of that circle and asked it to measure it, something that is usually very exact. It just said 0 cm.

This is nothing. Which is great for you when you buy the package to render all your fun little spheres. A sphere can have as few as 8 patches. The gaming world would be radically changed if they used patches.

#50

Originally posted by John Keates
One last thing though: SHOW US A GOD DAMN PICTURE! Just a sketch will do! Or perhaps you would like to render a perfect chrome ball on a perfect checker floor?!

What could i accomplish by that ? Does anything i said would be diffent to you ? I hope not !

#51

None that make your work totally unusable !

There are none in A:M that I know of. And trust me, I’ve done a lot more than render spheres. See my fender thread.

uv mapping sucks

Latest version. It rocks. And besides, you’ve never used the program!

I don’t have time to answer all of these, I’ve got to catch a plane. But I’m sure someone will rebut everything you’ve said. I’ll try and see how many I can squeeze in.

Nope !

you’ve never used the program!

rendering is awful

Look at JoeW’s work. Not to be unhumble, but I think the rendering of my guitar ain’t awful either. The problem is the huge amount of bad artists using A:M, or at least newbies. There tend to be more of them using A:M. I’m sorry if I offend anyone, but I’m sure you’ve all seen something really awful made with A:M. It also doesn’t help that A:m shows work from 1996 in their gallery.

you can also get recognised as an artist by using “big packages”. BTW i’ve been to 2 Siggraph shows already !

Congratulations! I hear the requirements are really hard to get into that show! Umm… you… um… have to um… be human (?). I’m going this summer, too.

You get recognized for good work. Not for the fricken package you use. I’ve spoken to the head of HR at Sony Pictures Imageworks about this, personally. It’s all about the work on your reel (and the music! lol).

Should we compile a list of Pro’s who use A:M or got their start with A:M?

But the head moderator of these forums, lildragon (embarassed to say I forgot his name) is a good one to start on.
.Jeff Lew (goes without saying)
.Victor Navone (Pixar)
.Dan Shimmyo (MODELER Blue Sky)
.Raf Anzovin

#52

What could i accomplish by that ? Does anything i said would be diffent to you ? I hope not !

Yes it would, because you spew without knowing what you’re talking about, and we would have some newfound respect.

You’re digging yourself a deeper hole.

#53

A. There is nothing unusable about hash patch models. You can export them just fine. There are lots of exporters available. Most of the models you see in my demo reel were create in Animation Master.

http://www.eggington.net

B. I would love to see more solutions to integrate with other packages. But that does not make Animation Master invalid and certainly doesn’t warrent your ranting.

C. Show us your stuff.

#54

Originally posted by zero2zillion
It took me 30 seconds of scrolling out to be able to see the full sphere again

You are a slow scroller heh !? You cant make the holes to small or you get creasy surfaces and otherwise you will get artefacts from the hole (also from procedural materials,… ). Maybe it’s just a tiny problem but to me its just unprofessional.

Originally posted by zero2zillion
Look at JoeW’s work

Examine the close-ups of Hunters legs !

#55

Is that sketch one of yours, Violet?

here’s a couple of mine, since we’re sharing :slight_smile:

That last one is for a tutorial on A:Ms UV editor that I did…So I’m pretty sure that A:Ms tools are quite sufficient. (or am I just a hobbiest?)

#56

Violet:

“What could i accomplish by that ? Does anything i said would be diffent to you ? I hope not !”

That sentence was constructed with the same kind of feeling for perfection as the little doodle that you posted.

The point about asking you to show your work is that you keep going on about how you have this qualification or use that program and so far we have no reason to believe that you are anything more than a spotty little gimp who spends too much time gleaning factoids from the net.

There are allways faults in computer programs. There are faults in everything. The theory of Quantum Electro Dynamics is one of the sturdiest theorys in science but it doesn’t go the whole hog. There are even holes in mathematics.

We are not talking about making perfect re-creations of reality, we are talking about making pictures. Earlier you said that the aim was:

“not about individuality but productivity !”

And now you are saying that it is productive to worry about stuf that nobody will ever see! Well this is further proof that you have no experience in a production environment or indeed can produce anything of any more worth than your recently donated gift to art.

#57

John, you know that Quantum Electrodynamics is the old news. The new hotness is Quantum Chromodynamics :wink: (Okay, okay, so they each pertain to different forces but I think that someone also started to work on quatum chromoelectrodynamics even - either way, it’s all crazy).

Anyway, as great as the smell of burnt troll is, why don’t we just have Wegg offer to have some work posted or send our friend off to Poserland?

#58

Zandoria, i just visited your site - Hugh Hefner would love it :eek: !

John, here are some pictures, lets do your best :wink: !

I have enough for now. Must go, drink some booze and train my artistic skills with Magna Doodle :slight_smile: !

#59

Freedom of Speech ? I never offended anyone personally ! I only bash on Hash !

odinseye2k has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were.