Modo isn't clicking with me

#1

Software system crashes are serious problems which affect users’ satisfaction, I had a few serious issues with Modo and Instability is only one of em!

I can’t blame my hardware (12 core PC / nVidia GTX series / latest drivers), it is more robust than requirement hardware for 501, I’m also Maya user and it works perfectly fine on my side.

Beside stability, performance is also questionable when it comes to large or complex scenes, I’m also want to mention destructive-workflow which is quite painful for end-user, and also their scripting syntax and SDK doc which is god awful bad, It’s funny how these people call themselves ‘Industry Brains’, maybe SDS modeler is top-notch but that’s all!!! :eek:

Jim

#2

Tip, I agree with you about the poly handling in large, complex scenes, worked in 3dsmax for a long time and there is a big difference, anyway the modeller is great, just need to remember to save often in stages, but that’s okay since Icome from the lw background.

It works great when you do simple stuff but really chokes on average scenes, lots of objects, would love to know a way to optimise and work more efficiently.

#3

I agree that modeler IS great, but it doesn’t bring anything new on the table and interface is clearly a bad design in my opinion, it does combine a good viewport with good selection workflow, but also introducing more limitations like… History is deleted every time a new object is created, which limiting flexibility in a non-linear workflow!

to be honest, Selection workflows are extremely powerful and efficient (although Maya had similar selection workflows since 2011). WorkPlane is also superior but I preferred to use Maya Live object or 3dsmax Autogrid. Another thing to mention is that new objects are always combined with previous objects into a single mesh, unless you explicitly add a new layer first. this can have a negative impact on productivity.

The item list and shader tree lacks the power and flexibility of Maya Hypergraph and Hypershade, or even node-based material editor in 3dsmax 2011.
I think Maya has virtually all the tools of modo, but lacks the workflow refinement. modo is only a Subdivision modeler and better work nicer in this area!

Jim

#4

Modo doesn’t have history, so I’m confused as to why you’re saying it gets deleted.

to be honest, Selection workflows are extremely powerful and efficient (although Maya had similar selection workflows since 2011). WorkPlane is also superior but I preferred to use Maya Live object or 3dsmax Autogrid. Another thing to mention is that new objects are always combined with previous objects into a single mesh, unless you explicitly add a new layer first. this can have a negative impact on productivity.

That’s a holdover from Lightwave’s way of working, but it only has a negative impact on productivity if you don’t spend time getting used to it. I never find it gets in my way. Also, you could set up a hotkey to go back to Item mode, or a script to switch to item mode by default, or scripts to replace the buttons for new object creation so that they always create new items.

The item list and shader tree lacks the power and flexibility of Maya Hypergraph and Hypershade, or even node-based material editor in 3dsmax 2011.
I think Maya has virtually all the tools of modo, but lacks the workflow refinement. modo is only a Subdivision modeler and better work nicer in this area!

I think if you give the shader tree a real chance you’ll find it’s extremely powerful. Most node-based setups can be boiled down to a linear feeding of data from one node to the next; I’m willing to bet you could replicate most of your Maya shader networks in the Modo shader tree without too much doing.

As far as your instabilities go, if you’ve upgraded your drivers and are still experiencing issues – and the crashes you get are consistently repeatable – please submit a bug report. Luxology is excellent at getting to bugs and if you’ve found one that you can repeat again and again, please send it in so the rest of us can benefit. :slight_smile:

#5

Well for stability issues i can only praise modo (the latest 501 sp5 version) where in the last two months i had two crashes. As much as it sounds unbelievable it is true.

Regarding performance, yes modo is quite poor when handling scenes with a lot of items/polys. I would say if maya or 3ds max give you better performance in large scenes you should stick with them because low performance is a real fun killer. I mostly do simple or medium size scenes/objects so modo is cool with that.

destructive-workflow issue - it is always a problem when you come from another app. Some things are better in modo some are better in maya, that is the way it is and it should be. We want a perfect app which is an unrealistic expectation. I love modeling in MoI 3d and SketchUp and would really like to see some things implemented in modo but i doubt it will happen.

My experience is that whenever you give yourself enough time to learn the app you will learn it eventually and forget about the flaws you discover in the beginnings. And from all the major apps on the 3d market i cannot say for any of them that it is bad, they are all good, it is just a matter of time.

#6

Well you’re right about sticking to certain app if it works for you, the problem is that I can afford modo license for my freelance work, used to work in 3dsmax at previous work, and the ability to go back and fix something / modifier stack is brilliant, hopefully the nondestructive workflow will find it’s place in 601…

#7

regarding the workflow and stacking of modifiers (as 3ds max has it) i actually believe that some form of non-destructive workflow could be achieved in modo through reorganizing the command history options.

#8

I don’t think so, but There’s a rumor going around that 601 come with CA tools, that’s a very bad decision in my opinion. It’s like building a tower only to see it crash down, you have to build a foundation before you can build the next level on top!

There’s a LOT to improve, Painting and Sculpting remain half-baked since 401, Rendering department is not there yet, Modeling department needs a major refinement and so on…

In my opinion they should never try to compete with other major players, This is a dangerous game to play.

Jim

#9

yes the painting is pretty undeveloped if you compare it to bodypaint and 3dCoat.
maybe this is the price for having an alround app while having a small development team (i dont think lux has many developers as other high profile players).

#10

Company is pretty small with only 10-12 developers as far as I know, so they need to focus on improving what they have, then improve SDK and let Third-Party developers to come in! (like Rihno, Sketchup etc…)

Jim

#11

Yeah, from my point of view - designer, I’m not bothered with CA, there are other apps for that, I want top notch modelere, poly handling and render engine with simple animation system that is now, if the 601 will be about CA than I’ll skip this version.

#12

I guess that CA rumor is not far from the truth, interesting debate started over here…
http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=61890

#13

I was a Luxology detractor, I pretty heated modo workflow (select tool, activate tool, apply tool, drop tool…). But I must admit I was wrong about Modo and his capability. Now I like how it work and how modo doing the job. I like the ultra fast preview and I like basic, but useful 3d paint capability.

I become from XSI, and I pretty think XSI is a one of the best all around application out there, but I must admit the modo approach now intrigue me and I don’t fell any necessity of history stack.

Actually, I hope Modo present a more strong viewport and a roubust CA toolset (just have, but need more efficient deformer). Because, like said, now I like modo approach, and can really enjoy its work flow. About viewport performance read this topic:
http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=61837
is a well know issue, so I think they will work on it.

shader tree appear worse, but it is only the first impression, I think XSI Render tree kick ass modo shader tree and the (worse for me) Maya hypershade, but again, after a bit of practise, I can replicate (except for skin shader where I have issues) all the things I did in Render tree, and sometime in a more faster way. Shader tree has a logic, its personal logic, like Maya Hypershade and XSI render tree, need to learn, understand and respect it, only this :slight_smile:

About stability, upgrade to Sp6, now I have not a single crash. In first three SP I have too many crash, nothing so terrible, but XSI and Maya need an SP in every new release before most critical bug eradicate.

for modelling, I don’t like the modo workflow, like I said, but tools have lot of customization and can fit it to my needs. Agree with generalsketch, what modo doing can be doing with Maya, XSI, blender (with ngons) or Silo, and Maya and XSI (this one IMO is the best) has really powerful modelling tools, but not the some modo feeling, with modo I can doing the some Maya modelling workflow, if I want, or try to a total different approach. Luxology give you a toll set, you can combine tools, setting and customize as you prefer, and don’t need to write a single script, need only to know how work Tool Pipe.

#14

yah, modo used to be stable in 401. I want to learn max for modelling (non destructive, no crashy) instead but I am on a mac and can’t stand windows. I love cinema for graphic design work but their modelling tools look hideous :frowning: The world will never be perfect lol.

#15

Blender doesn’t “click” with me :slight_smile:
Zbrush used to not “click” with me, but now it feels more natural :slight_smile:

Modo “clicks” with me as far as navigation, stability (*) and render speed/quality goes.

Stability: I recently replaced my 6GB RAM with 12GB RAM. Modo would freeze, Windows would hang/reboot etc. I could actually work with it for a couple of hours but then randomly freeze/hang modo and/or Windows. Then upgraded Bios of my X58 motherboard - rock steady since. Actually more steady than it ever was with my 6GB of RAM, so maybe the mobo actually needed new BIOS then too, but it was just not exposed with the slower RAM.

Complex scenes, yes still get the odd pauses where modo will sometimes hang for quite a while when doing material edits etc but so far it has come out of it again. So maybe a thought there - BIOS upgrade - who’d have thought… I was just about convinced I had got a bad batch of RAM before that. The odd pauses/unresponsiveness in modo can definitely be improved, so hoping they improve that in next version.

Render speed and quality: This is the “piece de resistance” for me. Love the quality and speed - particularly the fast GI one can get.

#16

Modo “clicks with me very well”:love: …but i agree about the poor Handling with large scenes!
Also the painting and sculpting section must have improvements.
I´d like to see PTex :buttrock:

#17

I use 3D-Coat for painting and normal mapping and baking. modo I just render in. It’s fast at that.

#18

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