Modo and Silo


#70

Well, one doesn’t preclude the other. I use a tablet and am setting up a bunch of pie menues. That’s what I like. But the double-clicking wouldn’t impede that - and it works w/ a tablet too (i use a wacom and map the right mouse to the lower rocker switch and the middle to the upper - works great in maya).

Context sensitive menues are huge - i’m really surprised they aren’t there (right click on edge to split, spin, etc…)

-Greg


#71

Well, hopefully it’ll be possible in future Modo versions to totally remap the mouse buttons like in Silo.

Wait, isn’t it already possible to just throw the command for selecting an edge into a pie menu and use that from a hotkey? Should make you happy. I guess you could (Maya-like) just trace the history, copy the command and create a new pie menu with that command in it (at least, I hope you could do that in Modo).

Who of you guys are really modeling with a Wacom? I found it pretty awkward to model with a wacom inside of most 3d modeling apps (just slows me down) - except ZBrush, of course.


#72

“Context sensitive menues are huge - i’m really surprised they aren’t there (right click on edge to split, spin, etc…)”

There are no context sensitive pie menus in Modo?

I’m suprised people model with a mouse, maybe because the tablet modeling support is very nice in Maya, most likely application depedent thing.

Anyway it come down to speed and accuracy, if you use a tablet it has less friction, and more accurate, like drawing…if you get use to it, you won’t want to use a mouse… :confused:


#73

There may be, I haven’t had much time to play - too busy. But from what I’ve seen there are hardly any pre-defined pie menues (unline maya - where there’s a ton of marking menues). And as far as I can tell they are not context sensitve - just commands attached to a ‘pie’ menu - not taking into account what the mouse is hovering over.

I love tablets - much easier on the wrist too. Once you get used to it there’s no going back. Mice are for FPS… : )

-Greg


#74

Disagree completely.
Most 3d UI’s have nothing to do with painting. Until they all do (not just Zbrush) I’ll keep my 5 button wheel mouse, thx. =]


#75

ambient-whisper, I like your style man. Luxology has already contacted you I hope. With the suggestions you make, you’ve had been in my office by now.

The reason I left Lightwave was inconsistency. Modeler of LW got so fragmented it had tools scattered all over the place, one filling on to the other, ending up with a shitload of tools that most of the time can be bundeled into one.

The reason I stepped into Modo was because of a cristal clear interface, modular build, consistent and flexible in use. The last three days I have read 75% of all material included with Modo and the more I read, the more I see an exact copy of LW6 modeler in a streamlined interface + some extra tools.
The moment I saw the release of Modo, that same moment I saw a heap of people jumping around, dreaming of making a bunch of tools, that’ll make up for what is not there yet.
To see Modo start where LW is and added with a clean interface and a speedy workflow is a dream comming true for me. However, seeing Modo start where LW is, i’d love to see it go on the consistent ride… not one where bits and pieces get added.

Look at building software as making a pyramide. Once a pyramide is build, you don’t just add another one on top of that… Nah, even a few hundreds of years ago, people were wise enough to build a new one in a new spot.
LW is one pyramide on top of the other, with plugins hanging on the sides all over the place to balance the whole thing.
Time is money, so maybe taking the time will bring money… think about it… A fast release of bits and pieces will bring nothing more then bad advertising.

The feeling I have when working with Modo is that a few tools have considered very deeply and others just were added really quickly as if they were typed over of some paper dated in the late 90’s.

The biggest mistake in Modo is the inconsistency between the interface and the tools. It’s a nice package of an old product at the moment. And what strikes me the most is that Luxology has the powers to make good stuff… look at the interface: Generic, clean, re-usable for all kinda sorts of things, virtually unlimited… and the tools, well, most of them seem to be made without consideration.
I’d like to have seen the same generic building of tools as intelligent, flexible and consistent as the interface… I’d like to see all of Modo!

Luxology has got somthing going here. This is a company worth investing in. Modo is a great package. However the tools inside Modo aren’t Modo… they are Lightwave, with the exception of a few. I have to use the same workarounds here in modo as I had to do in LW. That’s where something in the back of my mind tells me: “That does it! I’m outa here!”

Most people with whom I talked about Modo refer to your thread, Ambient-whisper. Most of them are waiting to see the things implemented you say before they’ll buy Modo… there’s a clue here Luxology…

Modo v1.0 rocks bigtime. It’s a great apps. However for the next version, i’d like to see Modo tools, not LW’s. We need tools with the same genius as the interface. The more Luxo will step away from Lightwave and the more it will grow towards the Modo spirit, the more copies they’ll sell.

Wise are the men who are listening to experienced users like you Ambient-Whisper. We’ll see at the next release how much they listened to you and they’ll see on their incomes…
I wouldn’t invite just everybody on a forum to my copany, but you’d have a contract of some sort by now man.
The developper that can lay hands on a few people like you, will end up with a kick-ass apps and a shitload of money!

Keep the idea’s flowing man… eventually somebody will implement them… and i’m hoping Modo will!

Cheers,
Andy


#76

Couldn´t such “intelligent tools” already be scripted in Modo? For example an xtend toolthat bevels/shifts in Polyggon selection mode and extends in vertex and edge mode. From what i understand Modos command history is selection mode aware. Simple If/Then formulas should do the trick. hese unified tools could be further enhanced with different behaviours according to the button used. If/Then enhanced toolpipes that could be bound to keys for fast access.

PS:I agree, nothing better than a Wacom to model. Works wonderfully in LW Modeler, at least. Mouse only for games here.


#77

not sure if this is possible in Modo now, but take a look at the picture. Its just some ways of exhancing the Extrude tool. But instead of holding Crtl key down you can always use Alt+Z(element) action center :wink: Its still a extrude too, and you can control the number of sides still.


#78

you know what I just started thinking… maybe even luxology does not know where modo’s borders can be… and how good modeller they just built… with the base it has i think you can built anything on it… (…and I just started making some financial arrangement to buy this monster baby modelling program )

you know there are some kids, you get answers as if you get them from an adult, when they talk… like little adults or grownups… I think modo is like that… and dammmnnn smart…


#79

that is the main point of modo that people has not figured out, that is why we hear some cries yet, because it has been couple of days. anything that shows up in the toolpipe should be used with others. there may be bug here and there, but that is the bottom line. and on top of it, add easily managable recordable, and editable macros. modo gives you alot of options without alot of technical knowledge.


#80

Doesn’t have anything to do w/ painting. Navigating the viewports in Maya, LW, Modo - much easier w/ a Tablet (IMO of course). You can ‘swoop’ across the tablet w/ the pen without having to push any buttons (L mouse is just pressing on the tablet) - combi’s of RM or MM w/ Left mouse don’t entail pushing 2 buttons at once - just pressing and pushing. Much easier on the wrist. Not saying you don’t have a legit reason to work w/ a mouse, but the ‘painting’ thing is irrelevant, it’s not like painting (at all - but the painting stuff like artisian, airbrush, paintfx - much better). I used a mouse for 3D for about 7 years, my wrist f’ing hurt. Last 3 years w/ a big tablet my wrist almost never hurts - and (at least for me) it’s a much smoother process - moving, dragging, selecting - much more natural swooping a pen than pushing/pulling a mouse.

-Greg


#81

you know. the wrist hurting doesnt have anything to do from using a mouse. but rather how intuitive the application is. how comfortable the button combinations are, and such. like in maya where you have to press left and middle click to zoom ( before version 3/4 ( forget which introduced right click to navigation ). after a while it does get to you. also could be the mouse setup, or mouse itself.

i been using mice for almost 10 years and my wrist is in great condition.


#82

ahh, that was a bad term “like painting”, what I really meant was be able to select vertex/edge fast and tumble the view fast, since that what you do alot, when modeling. its alot like an artist putting down strokes, without thinking about it, obviously not that fast when modeling but it gives that feeling.

"after a while it does get to you. also could be the mouse setup, or mouse itself. "
Yes modeing in maya is definately not meant to be used with a mouse, I have used it for the first 2 years and always felt somthing was not right. untill I tried it with a tablet and I could tell it was meant to used with a tablet, everything felt right with the rotate/zoom/pan, I feel quite stupid at the time :confused:

Also after version 4.5 i think they added zoom with RMB for the mouse(eaiser for mouse user), it use to be only alt+MMB+RMB which is only good for a tablet(alt+tip+ hold the pen)

Also if you use MAX with a table you know its designed for a mouse, same with SI/XSI/, so I have yet to see a good modeler with awsome tablet interface like maya, obviously i Havnt use modo, if the naviation matchs maya’s then great!


#83

You are lucky not to have a tendency for that problem. I do, and WACOM saved my butt…well, wrist.


#84

I beg to differ - (or maybe I just don’t understand your post)

mouse + LW modelling (lots of dragging w/ the button pushed) = my wrist hurting.
Tablet + LW modelling (lots of draggin w/ just the stylus pressed) = my wrist not hurting.

so yeah - it’s the app too. But it obviously can be the mouse/app combo (maybe that’s what you’re trying to say).

-Greg


#85

Actually, it has everything to do with the mouse and how the mouse is designed. I can sit at home on my PC and work for hours with no pain, but I have to take brakes on the Macs at work because of the retarded mouse designs. I finally bought a decent logitech mouse for at work and I’ve had a lot of positive comments from people who’ve used it. One of my biggest problems with Apple is their seeming form over function attitude, but that’s a discussion for other places. :smiley:


#86

Yep, mouse design itself plays a big role in comfort. I use a logitech as well because they fit my hand as closely as if I had laid it on top of the desk in a natural relaxed pose. Desk height and ample work surface also play a big part in mousing ergonomics. I’ve found that a higher than usual desk height - enough so that I can easily rest my arm from the elbow down on the surface helps keep my arm straight and relaxed. I’ve never had problems since adopting these little tweaks, and I’ve worked a LOT of 12 hour days in the last 5 years.

I’m actually more likely to get a cramped hand from using my tablet for too long than I am a sore wrist from the mouse.

I stick with the mouse not because it’s more comfortable though, but faster and more versatile. A pen only has so many inputs that you can combine with a keyboard. A mouse simply has more and if the app takes advantage of this you will spend more time working right in your viewport with your mesh than you will accessing buttons and menus (marking, pie, or otherwise).

Anyone that has used Silo and really tweaked the mouse config into high gear knows you can do a hell of a lot of modeling operations with just the mouse , CTRL, SHIFT and ALT key combos. No pen can compete with that.


#87

coupled with the ability to let your mouse go. and just press a button. you cant get that kind of accuracy with a pen.

but. for tweaking models ( especially if the application has a way of aiding with selecting the closest element/s ), the tablet kicks ass. :slight_smile: even more so if you can add soft selection into the mix, and pressure sensitivity.


#88

Agreed. Pressure sensitivity, and stroke-based edits are definitely where a tablet excels.


#89

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