Modo 301 Reviewed on Subdivisionmodeling.com

#23

I don’t know why but people always like comparing apples to oranges. While Modo can’t do high poly counts like Z or Mud its editor can do much more like poly modeling, rendering, animation, etc. How can you compare an app that has to accept meshes, lights, cameras etc with another one that does nothing but sculpting? Apples and oranges.

#24

i know what you mean but honestly,it should be compared to the best in its field…so why should i need any sculpting tool as a high end user when its not up to the lvl to marketleaders like zbrush and mudbox, no matter if it can animate and render very well.

i am a big fan of silo as a modeling tool and whilst their sculpting is on a good way, i sculpt in zbrush because silo is no way close to it…same goes for modo.

just my 2 cents thou

#25

Well said Alberto.

#26

its not so much saying modo sucks in that department, its more about how they should have/could have done it better.

And its not comparing the whole program either. Its comparing only the similiar aspects of the program.

just my 2c though

#27

This isn’t true at all, educate yourself on how modo’s image sculpting actually works.

#28

I know how it works. It gets the job done true, but for pure poly-sculpting, they should have a division history so you can step down. otherwise i really have no qualms with the new modo tools, just that the default UI is getting a bit cluttered but thats nothing a little customisation doesn’t solve.

#29

You can raise or lower the SDS level all you want…

#30

well for poly-sculpting, if you can show me how to lower the sub-d level then I’d be greatful.
I know its possible with image-based, but image based is more of a clever displacement map and while I admit i haven’t tried it out fully yet, there are limits to how much information a displacement map can hold.

anyway I have no real problems as such with the way they’ve done it, but if they did add a subdivisional modeling history, that would be really great.

#31

Guys!

Changing the sub-D levels – at least for modeling – is totally non-destructive. + or - on the numeric keypade, or right-click on the layer and select properties (where you can set the level in an input field, etc.)

It’s true that if you use “Subdivide SDS” from the Mesh Edit menu, you’re essentially subdividing and freezing in the same step – thereby increasing the base geometry – but that’s totally different than hitting the Tab key, etc.

Having only had 301 in my hands for about a day, I don’t know how that affects sculpting – but it’s important to clarify that the suggestion that you can’t control subdivision levels, or that it’s not possible to step up and down, is inaccurate (assuming I understood the question.)

Finally, re: ZBrush vs. modo – they’re each among my favorite apps of all time. But even Lux will admit to you (as Brad Peebler has himself said in his weekly modcasts) that they’re not even attempting to compete with ZBrush in all its glory – what they are doing is giving their own user-base an alternative, especially for certain smaller details that would be inconvenient to pause / launch / save / exit / launch / import, etc. – and for many people, they don’t need the atomic-level power that ZBrush provides.

I expect it will also prove useful for game content creation, etc. whether or not its ever used to create the next ILM Davey Jones. Though with the speed of software technology, don’t count them out…

That’s all I’ve got.

Cool? Cool.

#32

just fyi though, the subdivision mode your talking about is more of a smoothing operator. Its sort of like applying turbosmooth in max or converting to subdiv and using poly mode. The base mesh remains the same, the subdivision is applied to that.

The division in zbrush/mudbox adds proper geometry instead of smoothing.

but i agree, the tools are obviously meant to bridge a gap between two apps instead of replacing one, but a few additions to the program would mean going to zbrush only when extreme detailing is required. Unless they manage to make modo handle as many polys as zbrush, then one could say adios to using other apps other than modo and a bigger app like maya.

btw, does anyone know if modo has LCSM mapping?

#33

Yes it does. Since modo 103 =). It was the first program I used that had LSCM actually!

#34

Incorrect. The sculpting displaces the limit surface of the SDS. Not the cage.

#35

You can get a quite detailed looking mesh as well even with only a 1k map. Of course ZB can handle more and has a good few more tools, but for modo to have all this within itself is a huge plus.

This was done with a mouse, and I only started it yesterday for a few hours playing about, but its nice not having to jump out of the app to play with some sculpting.

#36

Can it be converted to geometry afterwards?

#37

Yes, you can freeze the mesh and include the displacement maps which will give you all polys.

#38

Ah cool. Means I can generate normal maps from em =) Good for making game content!

#39

You don’t need to freeze anything, you can bake a normal map to a low rez object while it’s still a image based displacement.

#40

A lot of what modo is doing with image based sculpting is cutting out the middleman. You don’t have to do a hi-res geometry sculpt and bake down to an image and then apply that image (not even a vector image) to low-res geometry that will be animated. You simply sculpt on your low-res geometry via a vector displacment map from the get-go. Modo’s renderer will dice it down to millions (or even billions) of polys at rendertime. The sub D level (up or down) will just give you a more or less accurate portrayal of your map in the viewport.

I can see people who are used to level stepping in zbrush feeling Modo’s mesh sculpting is more limited (it is in that regard) - but there’s more than 1 way to skin a cat in modo. You can rough out a shape with mesh sculpting and UV it with the excellent UV tools - send it to zbrush and bring back a high-res model or baked images. You can even use modo’s sculpting tools to tweak out the model once it’s back in modo. Or just use Modo’s image based sculpting for the fine details.

I’ve just finished a project with a number of landscapes sculpted in Modo and it’s really quite amazing when you think about it. Millions of polygons being displaced in real-time, right there in your viewport via a vector displacment map. You can paint on this geometry, freeze it, bake from it, render it, animated it, add proceedural coloring with the displacement values as an input, animate the displacment, etc.

It’s really quite unique in the 3D world right now and really gets you thinking where 3D is going to be a few years from now.

-Greg

#41

I think image based sculpting idea is excelent, however the main question is how high does it go? Is 4096x4096 usable? Can u subdivide enough to see all the detail and keep some interactivity?

What about bigger maps?

#42

You can use multiple uvmap and multiple layered images. And you can work on a 4k but its a little slow, but a 4k map is potentially 16million sample points.