I’m probably guilty of using too many patches in my initial spline cage but here’s the results.
SplineGod, when starting with a spline cage, what’s the correct terminology for the finished model—subdivision model or spline-based model?
In another forum, when I referred to a model as a spline model, someone thought I was referring to NURBS. So now I’m a little confused. If asked how it’s created should I just say sub-d’s created from spline-patches?
That’s a good question, and that’s an amazing facial model.
Show how you started and so on please.
Originally posted by allenatl
[B]I’m probably guilty of using too many patches in my initial spline cage but here’s the results.[/B]
if you are guilty so i must die now:cry:
please put your spline cage:surprised
I’ll post it tonight. Not at my 3d computer right now. The model went through a lot of changes so the most recent probably doesn’t resemble the original spline cage. However, when I went back and re-did the ear, it was closer to Larry’s 15 minute ear technique using less splines.
Hey Tejani,
That cage is a pretty good start. You need to use reference so your proportions are correct. Also I have found that if you make your splines follow nice arcs with no kinks in them youll end up with a much nicer flow and form to your models. You also dont need that many splines. 
Look at the splines in the cage below. They follow nice smooth arcs.
Allen,
Very nice form and flow to your model. Its pretty easy to go back
and remove splines. I sometimes add extra splines as a way to help align parts and then I remove them.
Heres how simple a spline cage can be:
and heres how the resulting subd cage looks like. Rather the use too many splines I keep the cage simple and just get the basic form and flow. Later I rely on spin quads etc. to tweak the flow further. I find it to be much faster.
Originally posted by allenatl
I’ll post it tonight. Not at my 3d computer right now. The model went through a lot of changes so the most recent probably doesn’t resemble the original spline cage. However, when I went back and re-did the ear, it was closer to Larry’s 15 minute ear technique using less splines.
The idea for me is to use the splines simply as a quick layout tool.
It is in most cases much easier and faster.
Yeah, I try to put to much detail in my original cage which unecessarily increases the time it takes to patch everything. With more practice I’ll get away from that bad habit. I think this is where most people get the idea that it takes longer or that you’re doing twice the work. If it’s simplified like your example, Larry, then everything else goes faster.
larry you are making this thread fantastic
i will make another try
and i will put it here
keep on:bounce:
Seriously Larry, thank you for your “dedication” to this thread.
Can you make a simple movie of how you made that spline cage?
And how can I get a hold of you for training?
Thanks alot guys.
Basically each technique is the application of a tools based on Proportions, Form and Flow. You can pretty easily see the form of the model even as a spline cage. Its almost like a 3D sketch. You can also easily see where and how edge loops will flow.
As allen pointed out, when you dont worry about details in the spline stage it makes it fast and easy. Use SubDs for detailing and tweaking.
Allen.
I teach how to do this as part of my character course. Just the modeling portion is 15 hrs of quicktime movies. I dont like to simply show how to do things but WHY I do them and when to do them. I present rules that can be applied to any 3D program and then show the technical aspect in LW of how to apply those anatomical and artistic rules. Anyone can look at the spline cages Ive posted and sort of make it work. I want people to have a good understanding of the underlying rules that drive how the modeling is done. I have a support forum for my students. No matter how detailed the quicktimes are theres always questions. I continually critque the WIPs that students post up. I keep the student section of my forums private so I can keep them focussed.
You can check them out by going here:
http://www.learningstop.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi
and logging in as guest , guest.
You can check out my character course
HERE and you can email me at larrys@splinegod.com.
Thanks!
I’m definately going to be looking into that.
And how do you know how many points to make a spline for the face?
Like the profile…
I use enough points to get the profile. I try to keep the number of points down so I have less to deal with.
I also try and keep the number of points between spline intersections consistant. You end up with cleaner meshes.
Hello everyone:
It is interesting to see everyone’s techniques and their choice of workflow. I just wanted to add that anyone wanting to model heads or anything should try all the techniques mentioned above and see what works best for you. It is subjective.
I am in Larry’s course and his courseware covers both Larry’s version of the box method and the spline method.
Me personally, I like the spline method. I struggle with the box method, because I find it hard to manage all the points and polys when cuts are made. But thats just me. I am new to 3d and with more practice, hopefully I will get better.
I am an experienced 2d artist (Freehand, illustrator, Photoshop, etc) and working with splines is very similar to working with the bezier tool in an illustration program so it just works better for me.
I am a bit skeptical about posting these WIP cause compared to most works posted here they sub par. But splines in Lightwave seem to be a bit underated so I wanted to show how far someone brand new to 3d can get using this method. Oh and one more disclaimer. These images here don’t reflect the teaching ability of SplineGod. :bowdown: Like I said I need more practice and I am a thick headed Canadian who will get it eventually.
Part 1 - the spline cage
Part 2 - the patched cage
http://www.bigbackcomics.com/splinehead/evolutionofsplines2.jpg
Part 3 - the current state
http://www.bigbackcomics.com/splinehead/evolutionofsplines3.jpg
Like Larry says, spline cages are the layout tool. With them you get great flow and then you use the sub d tools (smooth shift, bandsaw, etc…) to add the details after. The mesh is much easier to work details in due to the flow of the polys. Another reason to work with splines might be to model for cel shading. Splines are a great way to define ink lines when creating cel shaded characters.
Thanks,
I almost don’t want to post this because it’s a case of spline overkill on the initial cage. I basically drew everything out with splines because I didn’t want any surprises later on. Not the most productive way to do it though. I’ll definitely use a lot less splines on the next model.
Progress from splines to textured model:
I lost count of how many times I re-did the ears on this one. One thing I learned in the process: If you’re going to make an attachable ear, build the small area around the ear also. It’s a heck of a lot easier to attach that flat section to the head.
Hey Jeremy,
Dont sell yourself short. Youve done very well. The hardest part of this is simply doing it over and over to get proportions and flow down in your head.
Allen,
Nice model! The flow is very interesting. The nice thing is that splines are easy to ignore or remove without messing things up.
Great job!
So how far should I do the profile?
Past mid way?
What scares me away from spline modeling is all of those points and lines and posistioning them all in a 3D world.
BAH!
I’m soo scared when I see stuff like that.
Actually that’s what scared me away from splines for a long time. I got interested in it again after seeing several of Bachelorette threads using loose splines in the background as a layout guide. After messing around with that technique I began to understand how to move the shapes in 3d space. So those threads were indirectly responsible for helping me finally understand splines.
I am not a pro at this but I am definitely a point-by-point guy. I attribute it to starting with Dan Ablan. I seems that when first modelling we are willing to put in the time and attention to get this stuff working at all. Once you are getting a result that is acceptable to yourself it is harder to go back and dedicate that virginal focus on a new technique. I tried the box method it didn’t click with me but if I am honest about it I spent very little time trying to own it. I did however learn a lot of stuff that I do use.
The creature in my avatar is p-2-p.
Right now I am working on my first body and trying to think in the same terms as the face about flow and edgeloops etc. I’m not too happy with it but I think after a couple of tries it will fall in.
Do you think the same methodology for the face translates equally for the rest of the body?
