Modelling Heads

#341

Looooookkkeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee in a mirror…

Originally posted by HaloAnimator
Okay…I can see the forehead. Could you diagram the jaw area? I could simply fix that with Spin Quads…

#342

Hi all, just signed on here. Here’s my second attempt at a head, it’s a WIP:wip: feel free to mercilessly critique it. :slight_smile:

#343

For those who havent’ seen it, I have a free head model I just posted to my website this last week that you are welcome to download and examine.

Here: http://giger3d.com/Model%20Directory.htm

It’s a model of Angelina Jolie.

#344

Yeah, I would also like to know this… dont leave us hangind dude! :sad:

#345

Don’t make assumptions about how long it takes someone to do any one thing.

Valid point.

Crossbones, I’m happy you have found a method that suits you, but please don’t thrust your opinions down are throats as if we are all a bunch of idiots, who have just fallen out the tree. You just come across as a know it all, and none of us are that.

I think that it pays to be open to other people’s approaches including yours, but I think your posts rather than being encouraging, have the opposite effect i.e. they rub people’s noses up the wrong way. We are all artist here, we all take a pride in what we do. Being told that our methods suck, because you’ve apparently struck gold, is in my opinion arrogant to say the least. In additon whilst I like your anteater character, I don’t see anything there, which is particularly humbling. If you want to see fine examples then just check out the CGTalk gallery more often. Funny how these guys and gals seem to be the quiet ones??

If I am to pick up on one positive that I read in your post though, it is to do with sketching or sculpting. With that I’m in total agreement, and it is something I am only now concentrating on.

In my considered opinion this takes presedence over any chosen approach to modeling, and if you are looking to speed up the process and improve the accuracy of your modeling, this is where you should start.

RPG

#346

Hi all,

this is my thrid head model and the only one I would consider posting here. I used point by point method. Nothing like some of the posts here and in terms of hours, I could have modelled three digital sets in the same time.:slight_smile: It is still a WIP as I complete the other parts of the character and then try my hand at animating her.

#347

Finally got around to trying box modeling again. It wasn’t too painful. Like everything else, it gets easier with practice.

#348

Nice job guys on both models! :slight_smile:
Can we see the wireframe of both?

#349

i appreciate the insight most people have provided on this forum. i usually just try to make a model, but now i think i understand more of what i should be aiming for.

:thumbsup:

#350

Thanks, Larry.

Wires:

How I got there:

The box modeling is based on a Maya tutorial at Maya3d.dk.

#351

Thanks Splinegod!

This one is much higher in polycount than most here. I used Stuart Aitken’s detail out point by point method. The topology is nothing like I was aiming for but its a start:)

I think I will try my hand at spline patching the next one. ( Should make for an interesting result:rolleyes: )

Here are some wires.

#352

allenatl: Nice work. Something I would recommend to both of you is to really understand your subject matter. Model in such a way that gives hint to an underlying structure. Try modeling with the face relaxed. The mouth open, the eye lids half closed. The idea is when you rig the face your going to have everything you need in the proper place.

Also break away from modeling so concentrically. Spin some quads and allow one area of the to transtion more naturally.

Nice work again.

[font=‘Courier New’]http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=155469[/font]
[font=‘Courier New’]Chris Reid here shows some good examples of modeling with indidcation. This only benifits further work to be done in texture displacement for animation.[/font]
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[font=‘Courier New’][font=Verdana]Roux: You might want is to pull away from the spline and patch and point by point. I assume you are using those techniques because those are available to you via the web or print sources. In the causing you to use too much geometery. With a model of that structure why bother using MetaNurbs? Try getting the most out of using something like metanurbs with the detail where you need it the most. Now you have uniform detail all over the head. It might not even animate being built that way.[/font][/font]
[font=‘Courier New’][/font]
[font=‘Courier New’][/font]

#353

Crossbones, thank you for the reply. You are quite right in that I am basing this off a tutorial. I haven’t had much practice with organics yet.

I don’t quite understand your suggestion though. Are you referring me to BOX modelling? This is the only lightwave method I am aware of apart from spline and point by point. (I suck at box and splines BTW)

I am interested in general comments as far as level of detail and final render quality. Looking at various threads, the mesh varies quite a bit from person to person although models like those of the Ripper seem to be quite high in poly count but very detailed. I imagine they would be difficult to animate.

#354

This is my head model…

#355

This is my small example I can show you. It was made only with Smooth shift, stretch, move, drag and spin Quads. This couldn’t necessarily have been modeled point by point or with splines simply because of the dynamics of the surface. The next step from here would be to put it through Zbrush and add some displacement detail.

The idea behind taking a box or any primative and modeling outwards is similar to adding clay and sculpting.

My advice to you is to keep your mesh as simple as you possibly can in certain places while detailed enough for displacement in others. MOST IMPORTANTLY BUILD TO ANIMATE.


This is a prime example done by my friend Taron. Its using the same technique as a above except this is what experience at a mastery level can bring you. This also could not necessarily be spline modeled. This was built to be displaced

My other friend Chris did some modeling for displacement with his character Lippy
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=155469

#356

crossbones
nice looking model …but how does it animate some of your loops look very probelmatic
and ur stemacaliods are not int he right place…but relly nice modeling…i don’t use box that much i prefer to combine in with batch modeling (point by point)

#357

You certainly could model that point by point.

#358

Wow,

thank you for all the insight. This is a great thread.
@Crossbones : I would also disagree that your model couldn’t be done point by point. My issue is converting the topology of a female face to 3D space at this stage. They all look too masculine and my proportions are still slightly off which is making them dog ugly! I think once I get the topology down, I can refine the poly count by learning how little I can get away with.

I am very interested in the techniques used to make the very high detail, animatable characters. Out of curiousity, does Taron’s model animate well?

#359

I guess I am not coming across the way I intended to on this thread. What I mean to say is that sure use whatever method allows you to get the job done. I am not saying one method is the only method either. Intitally I was modeling point by point, really not having fun with it and wanting nothing to do with 3D modeling. Until Taron showed me how he approaches modeling. Now when I model in this way,I feel like I am sculpting clay. He doesn’t get caught up in the fancy terminology (edge loops) or worry at all. When it comes to building for animation, its functionality (what does this character need to do). If you model something that follows the muscles of the face, it might not necessarily be the greatest candidate for animation.

This example I have used before. Its not necessarily complete. Chris did not have time to model indications of the muscles in the neck. It was more of study on facial aniamtion. It animates fairely well and it doesn’t necessarily need to follow the form.

hr>You certainly could model that point by point.>
It would be very difficult to model anything like that point by point mainly because its construction isn’t in a linear fashion. Meaning its not built upon straight out concetric loops. When you beging to spin quads, your surface has entirely different tension then if you were to model out concentrically. Also most point by point models I have seen are very uniform in structure. Meaning its one consistent level of detail throughout the model. In some cases I have seen too much detail in one area and not enough detail for animation in others.

Ziah>This model was done fairely quickly so I didn’t have a great deal of time to look at my Netter book. The STL hooks into the collar bone, I could fix it when I put it through Zbrush.

Roux> I guess my advice to you is this: really understand what a female face is doing in 3D space. Study it by simply observing. Then step into the ring with Lightwave beging to realize what you need. As far as topology goes. Don’t worry about it until you fully understand what it is you are trying to create.

ANother suggestion is to learn a little bit about anatomy. The book I was told about the Atlas of World Anatomy by Frank Netter. Know what sits under the skin. That would better help you indicate things like bone and fatty tissue.

#360

Great thread - wish this would become a sticky… :slight_smile:

IMO both box modeling and point by point are great methods - as highlighted by the awesome work of Taron and Ripper respectively. I’ve never encountered problems with animating either type of model, just that it obviously pays to keep poly counts down (something I’m still working on!) otherwise fixing facial morphs can become a nightmare.

Also I agree with Larry that looking for facial contours using splines (or alternatively using thin strips of polys) is a great way of getting to know facial topology. To anyone just starting out, I’d say try out all the methods and go with whatever you feel most at ease with - I really don’t think any one process is superior.

One big advantage of point by point I’m not sure anyone’s mentioned is that once you have a generic head model, you can sculpt a variety of faces from the same mesh. Here are two heads I’ve been doodling away at lately - a WIP, both originating from the same basic models…

PS Allenatl, your box modelling screenshots are great - looking forward to giving that a go.