Modeling in XSI (comming from Lightwave)


#1

Can I find tools like “spinquad”, “bandsaw” and “knife” in XSI?
I’m trying the experience CD and I come from Lightwave, as for now I find the toolset a little limited. I’m sure it’s just me who haven’t found all the cool tools yet :slight_smile:

I also can’t merge two polygon objects on the same layer???
I tried merge and blend with no effect :frowning:


#2

I use both LightWave and XSI.

Download RCTools 3.0 from http://www.claus-figuren.de/3d/rt/. This toolset makes life much easier. It can do similar things like bandsaw. It also works on points and edges.

I don’t know how to spin quads in XSI tho’. I do it by hand.

Yes, I agree that toolset is probably limited comparing to polygonal modeling tools in LW.

Why can’t you merge two objects? Do you pick both and then try to merge them? It creates new merged mesh. You have to freeze it and delete objects that you just merged it you don’t need them.


#3

hmmm…yes. I select both objects and then merge them but nothing seems to happen. I don’t get a third mesh :frowning:

Is the XSI experience stable?


#4

the polygon tools are absolutely NOT limited in XSI compared to LW.

read here how to use Bansaw and merge objects:
http://www.xsibase.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=mod;action=display;num=1037334014

and coming from LightWave have a look at
http://www.xsibase.com/tutorials/beginner.php?detail=192


#5

>> the polygon tools are absolutely NOT limited in XSI compared to LW.

I do not agree :slight_smile:

I’m exploring XSI for month now and still think XSI’s modeling workflow is quite slow and misses number of useful tools…
Though part of them could be done with scrips.

I’ve been watching XSI contest threads where people post their modeling progress and got a feeling that i’m right.


#6

I hate to say it, being the converted (from LW) soft head that I am, but left over is right, LW has one thing that XSI is an uncapped speed of workflow. If you ever watch a seasoned lightwave artist at work eg Taron. As the name suggest they can model anything within a lightwave pass of time. I do not deny this, I experienced it my self and some of my friends from school are avid users of LW. But does this make it a better modelling package?? My opinion is, not likely. As fast as it may be, the unique workflow that LW puts up on the able is almost unorthodox compared to everything else and may not work for some people, I was one of them, I had alread gone through Max and Maya, before LW and even though I was impressed with what they had to offer for their modelling toolset, I still felt that there was a wall preventing me from getting the desired effect, I often had to stop and think “how should I do this” or “wonder how to do this”. Basically I couldn’t think in LW method. XSI on the otherhand is logical for me, the way I would solve certain geometry issues are exactly how the tools in XSI behave. So for me it was faster than LW, certainly less of a headache. So does this mean I’ll beat an equaly skilled and well versed LW user in a Speed modelling contest, probably not. But I wont have to ever stop and think about what I am doing, I just do it.

The fact of the matter is when it comes to modelling, no matter what package is used, the end result is proven by the talents of the artist behind the package, not the package itself.


#7

Oh yeah one last thing, I do dissagree with XSI’s toolset being limited. The toolset is not limited, it is optimized. its like having a swiss army knife or a leatherman as opposed to just a screwdriver or plier. But I still think there’s room for refinement.


#8

Originally posted by Leftover
[B]>> the polygon tools are absolutely NOT limited in XSI compared to LW.

I do not agree :slight_smile:

I’m exploring XSI for month now and still think XSI’s modeling workflow is quite slow and misses number of useful tools…
Though part of them could be done with scrips.

I’ve been watching XSI contest threads where people post their modeling progress and got a feeling that i’m right. [/B]

my opinion is that the opposite is the case. I used LW for 3 years. You have 20 buttons for what you need 5 in XSI. LW can’t have n-sided polygons and you an’t even work with edges, bevel points or edges. This is a very big limitation. All this can XSI do and doesn’t cause an error in the model if you don’ have quaqds or triangles. I don’t see what in XSI could be missing, sure there are always things you can improve.


#9

aaah!! the power of xsi…it is not poo:xtreme:


#10

>I don’t see what in XSI could be missing, sure there are always things you can improve

Well,

Spin quads - very useful tool for controlling polygon flow for subD modelling.

(good example of using spinquads with smooth shift for modeling a head can be seen on these videos http://www.lightwave3d.com/tutorials/modeling/head/index.html)

Fast Mirror tool along custom axis with just one click.

Array tools that automatically build arrays with controlled jitter

Extruding in XSI doesn’t cap one side, you have to cap it manually
(you limited to curves to poly for that kind of task).

Extruding and beveling is not interactive… though it’s not big deal in old versions of lw they weren’t interactive too.

Beveling with curve pofile works with Curves ro Poly ony for some reason.

Decent “Smooth shift”… XSI has only Push deformer and duplicating polys and moving them with “Deform local components independedly” which is far not a same… Say you modeled a shirt or any other cloth and you want to give it a thickness… with smooth shift it’s a deal of few clicks… or even one click if you write simple script. In XSI with methods listed above some polys behave quite unpredictable.
There’s a pic that shows a difference http://ok.vtc.ru/sm_shift.gif

projecting polygons on geometry (Stencil)… in XSI you have to do it manually… you can only project curve and use it as modeling aid… you even cant “nurbs to mesh” trims. say you want to have extruded and beveled text on sphere or any other curved surface and then turn it subD…

Knife tool for cuts geometry with one mouse move… in Xsi you have to click each edge with split poly tool… what if geometry is really complex?

well, i can list more…

I’d like to see these tools in XSI… it would make it only stronger.

Anyway, i want say i like XSI and it has many tools that other packages don’t have… and again i’m exploring it just for month only and probaly it has a lot of modeling workflow tricks that i’m not aware of… but i keep trying :slight_smile:


#11

same here waver for 6 years and once you understand the modeling tool sets in XSI you start becoming more productive even double when you learn the shortcut keys.

For XSI Heads,

This question has been asked on several forums and I am uncertain of what is XSI’s equivalent to LW’s Spin Quads?

Spin Quads are applied to adjacent quads that share an edge. It then merges the 2 polygons together & splits them using a different set of opposing polygons. Mostly uses to correct subd object where there is a visible seem.

Pic 4 and 5 shows what I’m describing
http://www.evil-plan.com/ET.html


#12

Originally posted by Leftover

Spin quads - very useful tool for controlling polygon flow for subD modelling.

Valid tool, I used it a lot when I worked in LW, however after working with XSI for some time I don’t miss it, I find deleting the edge and redrawing it with add edge tool to have more control, and it’s a neglegable time difference


Fast Mirror tool along custom axis with just one click.

Yeah that would be nice, so Ctrl+D and scale -1 in desired axis doesn’t cut it for ya.


Array tools that automatically build arrays with controlled jitter

I’ve had no quarrels with “Duplicate multiple” in XSI for array functionality, but I am interested in the jitter I can see that being useful for a lot of things than just an array. The fact of the matter is I really use arrays all that much, even when I was using lightwave or other programs.


Extruding in XSI doesn’t cap one side, you have to cap it manually
(you limited to curves to poly for that kind of task).

Not sure really what your talking about here, could you please elaborate!


Extruding and beveling is not interactive… though it’s not big deal in old versions of lw they weren’t interactive too.

I had the same notion when I first started working with XSI, But then I realized how much I didn’t like it when LW would seperate two functions based on the Vert and Horizontal movement of the mouse, that never caught on with me, I prefer “shift+d” and use your X,C,V translation tools to set your bevel I feel it gives your more control rather than using the H and V movements of a mouse.


Beveling with curve pofile works with Curves ro Poly ony for some reason.

Yes a curve profile bevel is need, I do want this in XSI.


Decent “Smooth shift”… XSI has only Push deformer and duplicating polys and moving them with “Deform local components independedly” which is far not a same… Say you modeled a shirt or any other cloth and you want to give it a thickness… with smooth shift it’s a deal of few clicks… or even one click if you write simple script. In XSI with methods listed above some polys behave quite unpredictable.

You got me confused one this one, to my knowledge, extrude components (shift+d in a component mode) is the equivelent to Smooth shift. Why you would want to use the Push deformer is beyond me. Your not saying your modeling the inside of the shirt are ya? Cause that is a big No No if your planning on putting cloth dynamics because your shirt will turn into a bag. But I’ll have to go back to LW to get an idea of what you mean.


projecting polygons on geometry (Stencil)… in XSI you have to do it manually… you can only project curve and use it as modeling aid… you even cant “nurbs to mesh” trims. say you want to have extruded and beveled text on sphere or any other curved surface and then turn it subD…

These are cool tools and I do agree with you that there presence should be incorporated with XSI. The Drill tool was a personal fav of mine when working in LW.


Knife tool for cuts geometry with one mouse move… in Xsi you have to click each edge with split poly tool… what if geometry is really complex?

Don’t use the split polygon tool, the split edge and middle click is a closer approximation to the Knife tool. But I do miss the knife tool, subdivide edge and split edge do a similar job, but you have no angle control. Both act more like the band saw tool than the knife tool. I made a suggestion on the xsi4 wishlist thread that XSI needs this and maybe a knife tool that actually allows some curve rather than just a linear cutting plane.

No matter, I do see your point LW shines because a lot of it’s tool are designed to strip out any popup windows or anything a that would pull the artist out of his or her zone, and it is that what makes LW faster in my opinion. XSI is making strides to achieve the same goal, you can now set it in your preferences to not have the dialog boxes pop up, rather have them on call much like the ‘n’ key in LW.
I’ll go out on a limb here but in my opinion XSI and LW are the best modelling packages hands down. Some would argue that MAX and Houdini have more or better tools (Houdini maybe, but Max? don’t know why someone said that ) anyways irreguardless of How many tools their are in the package, or if they are completely parametric, the key to it all is Workflow. You know that Both Newtek and Softimage had the artists in mind when designing the user interface. The other programs seemed to be geared more towards the technically inclined venue of Computer graphics. I saw the interface of Houdini for the first time at school, and I don’t see how anyone can work in that type of environment, so cluttered and confusing. Max and Maya share the same cumbersome interface. LW and XSI are different clean and methodic layouts, you never feel like your on a scavenger hunt when looking for a specific tool, that is why I think the reign over other packages, as far which is a better modeller, as jesus said in south park, “I’m not touch that with a ten foot pole” they are both good.


#13

>Your not saying your modeling the inside of the shirt are ya?

No i just put it as example, maybe not good one… i mean any item you would want to give a thickness.

>Not sure really what your talking about here, could you please elaborate!

About extruding… say you have some shape made out of polygons… or maybe even one polygon… if you extrude it along axis you will get a “hole” were original polygons were. It’s not big deal if that shape is flat… i could rebuild it with curves and use curves to poly, but if shape is not flat?

>the split edge and middle click is a closer approximation to the Knife tool

No, it’s closer aprox. to basic BandSaw tool (i’d say good one even) :slight_smile:


#14

I mean’t that the split edge tool was a closer comparison to the knife tool then the split polygon tool. Its a vague comparison I know.

Now I know what you mean by the capping, the single polygon example is what explains it all. Yeah the extrude tools in XSI don’t take open geometry in consideration. The only thing I can think of really that will give you the same effect is taking your mesh in object mode, duplicating it, uniform scale the copy to the desired thickness with COG active then freeze the copy, once you’ve done that you can merge the two meshes with blending activated to cap the two models together, obviously not as convenient as LW, what can I say.


#15

Yeah that would be nice, so Ctrl+D and scale -1 in desired axis doesn’t cut it for ya.

You could also try Duplicate Symmetry under the Edit Menu and choose an axis to mirror the object.

TO: Leftover - Extruding and beveling is not interactive… though it’s not big deal in old versions of lw they weren’t interactive too.

What do you mean not interactive? When you pick a polygon and apply Extrude along Axis, doesnt sliding the Length slider interactively extrude the polygon? Same with the Bevel? When you pick an edge and use the Bevel tool doesnt the PPG pop open with the slider to interactively adjust the bevel angle?

Or are you looking for something more along the lines of interactive to the viewport without using the PPGs?

Just curious.
Vmpre


#16

Thats true, it may not be as fast, but the PPG for extrude along axis allows you to do mor than just a bevel, you have the option of how many subdivisions also not only can your control the scaling of the polygon, edge or point, but your can also translate it or rotate it either per subdivision or all together I find having more control on such a tool more convenient.


#17

Hmmm… this thread is becomming quite instructive :slight_smile:

I know now why I can’t merge objects, it’s simply not implemented in XSI experience demo :frowning:

They should just disable save objects and the rendering!


#18

By assigning SUBDIVIDE command to a key you have super"BANDSAW"
and by assigning DUPLICATE/EXTRUDE SINGLE to a key you have super “extender”/“smooth shift” … wheeee!!!


#19

the mirroring could be more interactive are be made with one step.


#20

interesting discussion.
just want to clarify some misinformation.
lw does handle n-sided polygons, just not as an interactive sub-d object.
and there is the subdivision tool “metaform plus,” which will subdivide objects with n-sided polygons. also as most programs would have extra scripts and plugins to fill in the gaps, lw has edge tools(if you’re into edges) along any other tool anyone cared for. but in the end, i think its just a matter of having technique, if you have no technique, you will always do things the long way in any program :slight_smile: