Modeling and animating in VR, is this the future for DCC?


#1

How do you guys feel about all the innovation that seem to coming down the pipe from VR tools?
But Before we start I want to share some videos to help the conversation:
Sculpting a house with MasterpieceVR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oX_spkhAgk

Animate in Quill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuUUgxsZ9tk

and the result is that even non animators like concept artist Goro Fujita is doing incredible work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE50C3YQHYI

I am looking forward to your comments:


#2

Sorry, I am unfamiliar with the world of VR - is Quill available only for Oculus? What’s its Vive or GearVR equivalent, then?


#3

watching both of those videos gave me a headache. Worked on VR projects, I prefer working with standard monitors and mouse…maybe in the future, with lighter gear, and more innovation it will be more attractive.


#4

VR is in a really bad state. There more I watch these kind of videos the more I realize that we are very far from a working VR solution both for content creators and end consumers.

PS Imagine being sentenced to do forced labor in VR! What a nightmare, just shoot me instead!


#5

This^
IMHO it wont matter how powerful or cheap the hardware becomes
VR will Never become popular outside of the fringe techy population.

The reason is quite obvious.

With certain broad based consumer technologies there seems to be a “natural” limit of two major platforms that laypeople
and consequently content developers will embrace.

I like to use the non techy single mother as a metric.
Ask such a woman to name a video game system
you will likely only get Xbox or Playstation as a response.

Ask such a woman to name a smartphone system
and you likely will only get Android or Iphone as response

Now ask her to name a “VR system” and you will likely get a blank stare.:blush:

Do you personally know anyone outside of the American federal goverment, using the blackberry mobile OS??
what about the windows phone??

VR needs to settle on a maximum of Two major platform Standards
and All of the hardware manufactures and content devs need to choose between those two and nothing else.

And then create some content that is compelling enough to make regular laypeople want to surrender
their entire field of vision to immerse themselves in the experience.

Until this happens, VR will continue to be seen, by the consumer masses, as the Mildly interesting yet
temporary sideshow oddity that it is today.


#6

They made the same mistake as with 3DTVs - not having great VR content in place before the hardware is sold.

  1. They put too expensive, and not yet very good VR hardware on the market as quickly as possible.

  2. They did not consider that first there have to be at least 5 - 10 really good VR games available immediately at launch.

  3. They also - as always happens - did not get together and work on an OpenVR-type VR gear standard, so that one can buy an HTC Vive or Oculus Rigy or any other VR headset, and it just works with any OpenVR compatible game.

So 3 problems in one - not very good hardware, lack of any good VR games at launch, no open-standard that makes everything compatible.

[b]A 4th problem is that Nvidia and AMD GPUs shot up in price because of crypto-currency mining.

[/b]


#7

At least you can’t blame the Japanese for not trying… https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/10/17219618/illusion-software-eroge-steam-vr-kanojo


#8

Maybe WebVR could be the solution to this? This is an old article I had in my bookmarks:

WebVR ships today


#9

I have no idea where the consumer market is at this point with VR (I mean where it REALLY is - not where people suppose it is), but at my work, we do a lot of visualization work for B to B clients in VR. A lot. The projects tend to be pretty successful too, and we get a lot of repeat business because of it. I think there’s a bright future for VR, but, like others have said, it’s probably going to catch on in some unexpected areas before it really hits in the consumer space. Plus, from what I’ve seen, most of the “games” being made for VR, are still built on old paradigms. IE - the developers took the same game they would have made for a PS4 and just made it VR ready. To be really successful, I think games are going to need to be made specifically for VR rather than just being ported to VR.

As for modeling and doing work in VR - I’ve used the office Oculus to do some stuff in Unreal. It was kind of neat at first, but I think it will be a while before actually working IN VR becomes the norm. At least for me anyway. It’s still kind of clunky and lacking in precision.


#10

>Modeling and animating in VR, is this the future for DCC?
8 hours a day? 40 hours a week?
Until they can make it non-fatiguing and even ‘healthy’ somehow it may stay a gimmick at best.


#11

I think a big distinction you need to make is between “Modeling and Animation” and “Production Modeling and Animation”. Those tools are great, you can model a little house quickly or do some nice stylized animations. Can you build an entire city with efficient polygon use, clean UV’s and export it to a game engine? Can you import a Revit model and clean it up? Can you load in mechanical equipment from a CAD application and animate the functionality? Can you bring in a rigged character and animate over motion capture?

These might be useful concepting tools or enable non-artists to do some cool artwork in, but production artists working every day on this will opt for the powerhouse tools and traditional interface every time. Just watching him drop out all those roof tiles made me wish for an Array tool already. So no, it’s absolutely not the future of DCC, but a fun tool for hobbyists or niche work anyway.


#12

There is nothing stopping Max, Maya, C4D, LW and other from providing both VR and 2D GUI 3D creation side-by-side. Just switch between them as and when you like.

You could spend 1 hour in VR for certain things, then go back to 2D monitor, mouse, keyboard and wacom when you want to.

Also VR Data Gloves - which have existed for over 20 years - would make 3D content creation hugely faster.

Your 4 hour ZBrush sculpt may happen in 24 minutes if you can use all 10 fingers to sculpt in 3D.

You can also pull and reposition polygon vertices and edges in true 3D much faster with your fingers than a mouse or wacom tablet allows you to.

So I wouldn’t discount VR for content creation.

Also, you may not be wearing VR headsets at all, but rather something like the MagicLeap AR goggles. Very different from those bulky Rifts and Vives.


#13

Must dissagree completely Mate.
How long have people complained about
the high price of C4D, for example ,when
the factory versions of it (no 3rd party plugins)
are far behind Similarly or lessor priced apps
in the critical areas of character animation & VFX.??

What is stopping Maxon
from implementing proven features that already exist in other programs and are proven to be in actual demand?

Nothing… except the fact that the company is apparently profitable
without investing $$dev time$$ in these features and thus does not assume the value added would increase their market share beyond the loyal Arch vis & Motion graphics users who gladly pay their MSA fees .

What human ergonomic value does wearing sweaty gloves and some bloody ridiculous, vision obscuring, head or face contraption, add to the process of 3D Modeling or Character animation for an eight to ten hour shift??

All of this banging on about how much faster/better everything would be
if the tech world embraced “VR” is just a bit of reductive, wishful thinking,typical of the kinds of prattle we have been hearing
from the Holography/VR/AR rabble for the last two decades at least.

VR is a great niche tool for training&environmental simluation
in the fields of medical science,Aviation, military & law enforcement.
and even those industries are all likely using proprietary systems as there still does not exist anything remotely
resembling a uniform standard for content creation or delivery formats.


#14

You do have a talent for making completely outrageous claims. I am sure that any fake news organization would be happy to hire someone with your capabilities of distorting reality.

As a matter of fact, you may be able to do it in 12 minutes if you use your feet too. But this you already know.


#15

Of course you realize that this is the end of AI for CGI…the dawn of the CGI monkey has arrived!:bowdown:


#16

I very much doubt that. I started in traditional FX, which means I’ve spent many a day pushing around actual clay. For myself and most of the folks I know who went through that transition, we sculpt about the same or faster in digital as we did IRL. For me, I can block things out a little faster in actual clay, but I more than make up for that by how fast I can detail in digital. Adding the ability to use all ten fingers will likely make things more intuitive, but probably not that much faster. Plus, even in real clay, there’s plenty of times where you are using a stylus-like tool rather than your fingers, so even if we had the ability to use all ten fingers, there would still be plenty of times we’d need to use something like a stylus.


#17

PCVR has a ways to go simply because the the sales of the hardware is more or less dead already now. The methodology of coding to the lowest common denominator picked up from common flat game development hurts a lot of projects, and the total abandonment of of proper edgeflow modeling for normal map/displacement map detail hurts a lot of projects (supported by points made by John Carmack at Oculus Connect 4 or 3 I think) Up close normal maps don’t work well at all. I’ve always said that the PC gaming community is really built around a the notion of it being a pissing contest or a retro pixelmaniac’s dream and because VR basically steals resources from that or is the antithesis of what some gamers are looking for the largest part of that community may never accept VR.

PSVR on the other hand probably will continue to do very well moving forward, because Sony has internal studios that are well funded and commissioned projects are well funded. The audience on that side seems more about exploring more experiential learning through gaming and through familiar gaming IP that Sony has developed over the years, some are skeptical of the medium but the more popular IP that makes it’s way there the more that breaks down…Sony did make a billion dolllars the first year and I doubt the spent anywhere near a billion dollars (not including the last couple of decades (1990’s) of Sony VR dev that got rolled into PSVR R&D.) Sony is probably “Right Fitting” the funding part of the equation and are just now really pouring money in to help finance making higher volumes of VR content, after a lot of mistakes have been made and teams have fallen, but development on Playstation is pretty closed. Wipeout for VR and Skyrim/Resident Evil 7 on PSVR first is a big deal expect more of that. It seems like the next year and a half will constitute a possible big year of releases for them and another round of funding by Sony for exclusive content on their HMD and maybe they will open up a little to third parties.

I doubt “VR is the future” but there is definitely a large chunk of the market that’s going to be VR…it’s just not going to happen the way most people thought it would or the way a lot of people want it to. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the first version of a VR ZBrush or Maya or Unity or Unreal or CryEngine shows up on PS5, when it releases at this point.


#18

Have you ever tried using VR data-gloves? Probably not. I did, about 15 years ago in a VR and interactive tech research lab. They are fucking amazing.

Yes, you will get much faster speed both in 3D sculpting and 3D box modeling with data-gloves. And the process will be much easier for people who have problems manipulating 3D models with a 2D mouse or 2D wacom stylus on a flat 2D screen.

In 3D sculpting for example, you could literally hold the 3D model in one hand, and use the fingers on the other to sculpt on it.

Plus data-gloves let you use 3D hand gestures to switch modes instead of keeping one hand on a keyboard for shortcut keys all the time.

But be my guest - use your already outdated 3D modeling workflows for the next 20 years, until you retire entirely maybe.

Don’t come crying to me when your current job position gets outsourced to cheap 3D workers in India or the Phillippines in the next 5 years.


#19

So you claim to know what I have tried and not tried, which mean that you still stick to your claim of a 10x speed up? Can’t you just admit that you made a BS claim? As others have pointed out too, you do not sculpt with 10 fingers, you often use sort sort of stylus, just like zbrush. Tone down the over-top crap and stick to what is known and provide references for your speculations.

No, I won´t come crying, I have already left the 3D business for Economics. And from an economic perspective the outsourcing and the changes in the 3D industry will be really interesting to follow.


#20

[quote=]Have you ever tried using VR data-gloves? Probably not. I did, about 15 years ago in a VR and interactive tech research lab. They are fucking amazing.

Yes, you will get much faster speed both in 3D sculpting and 3D box modeling with data-gloves. And the process will be much easier for people who have problems manipulating 3D models with a 2D mouse or 2D wacom stylus on a flat 2D screen.

In 3D sculpting for example, you could literally hold the 3D model in one hand, and use the fingers on the other to sculpt on it. [/quote]
Just curious if you saw my reply above.

EDIT:

Agreed. That’s what I’ve been saying. Where I am, we use VR/AR with a lot of BtoB type stuff and have a ton of success with it. On the other hand, we’ve done almost nothing for the consumer space. Everyone wants VR to be the next thing in Entertainment, but I really think it’s impact is going to be felt more in the business and research realms.