Minas Tirith Project || Part 2

#501

As some of you may have noticed, the project is becoming a bit more popular and well known. This is a cool thing really, but it has a downside too. The amount of traffic that the website (and the realtime viewer most of all) generates is huge, really huge. In the past three months we’ve had an avarage traffic of 138Gb per month (!!)
Of course our sponsor didn’t really like that, so we’ll have to come up with something that will put this to a halt. And that’s easier said than done;the popularity of the project and the size of the demo keep growing, so we’ll be consuming more and more traffic in the future.

Flavien (Ysaneya), Wilco (wdekreij) and I have been doing some brainstorming on how to solve this problem. We came to a few options that should be considered. I would like to know what you guys are thinking about them:

Option 1:
Keeping the website on the current host (free, sponsored) and search for other sponsors who want to host the demo (and eventually the final product).
Pro’s:
It’s free and (depending on the host) fast
Con’s:
We’ll have to find someone crazy enough to do it… and possibly multiple hosts.

Option 2:
Keeping the website on the current host (free, sponsored) and spread the demo (and in the future the final product) on a Bittorrent network.
Pro’s:
It’s free and doesn’t consume much traffic on our side.
Con’s:
We don’t have any garantuee of the availability and speed, because this depends on how many people will share the file.

Option 3:
Keeping the website on the current host (free, sponsored) and make the final product downloadable against a small price. (so we will have a paid host for the viewer)
Pro’s:
It’s fast and we have the garantuee of availability and speed.
Con’s:
People will have to pay money for our product which may result in less people who will actually download it (?)
We’ll need a system that can let people download once they paid.
We will need to build a small margin in the price, but what to do with the money if it turns out as actual profit?

Option 4:
Keeping the website on the current host (free, sponsored) and make the final product available on DVD, against a price of course. We can put a small demo online so that people can see what they will get.
Pro’s:
Website stays free and fast, without consuming a lot of traffic.
We could make some profit out of this.
Con’s:
Much time will have to be spent to the organisation and setting it all up.
How to share a possible profit?
Less people will see our work, because not everyone will pay for it.

Option 5:
Maybe a combination of the options described above?

I would like to hear your thoughts and ideas about this.
Oh and I set up a poll on the website to see how many people would like to pay for this project. So please take a sec to fill it out.

#502

well …i think 20 is to much…let’s face it…i mean a good game costs that and it’s much much harder to make a game so …20 nobody will give…but 10 or leess than 10 …maybe…
now there is a question…how the money(let’s say there is a considerable amount of money) how are u going to pay every member of the project…and how much are u going to give to everyone…i mean all the money shares equaly or …how… anyway…
there is a another problem…everyone knows that when there is money envolved…nothing good turns…i mean there will be conflicts…and memebers will say that they done more work than another … so i think this project shoul remain free …or at least don’t make this disision now…
and pjanssen u didn’t mentioned nothing about giving me or not a task…please think about it…

#503

Hey Janssen, well here is a link to my last wip and my website below in the signature !
Hope I can join you guys !

Cya

#504

Well, about the web and product distribution, i think the same of Grrrrrrr, less than 10e will be nice, but i think that the price will be only for cover the cost of dvd toast and mailship, Because all the projects of many people, with money involved… no thanks :slight_smile:

And a “free copy & distribution”? like some LNX disk, perhaps some GLP, GNU or similar (i don´t know very much about that licences, i´ll quest for the terms). That “hand to hand” distribution, helped with a bittorrent or ftps will be a solution.

@Zon Wernor: Really nice WIP, how you make the Background Clouds?

#505

Just tried the Minas Tirith Demo, guys that’s awsome, it’s huge !! Can’t wait to work on this project if you want me in your team (i’m also a big fan of LOTR hehe)

@AMoN-AMoK: It’s just a matte (not yet finished though) made of several cloud pictures :wink:

#506

@Grrrr: Sorry, I missed your renders. It looks great. Could you maybe email (Pier.Janssen@Endless-dimensions.com) me some highres renders of the buildings from MT you already did? Then we can see what can go directly into the city :slight_smile: And we can have a look at a next building for you to model. (If you have one in mind already, please tell me)

@Grrr and Amon: About the hosting/production problem:
Why is 20euro’s too much? Here in Holland a game costs 50euro’s. A dvd will cost us about 2,50 euro’s if we produce 1000dvd’s, printed and with boxes and all. Package and Handling costs (putting the dvd’s in boxes/enveloppes and putting adresses on it and distributing them) will be the highest I think. That’s something that we could let a company do, but that will be expensive, too expensive I would say. Or someone would have to do it himself. (which will also cost money, but less)
Shipping costs will be a thing that will have to added to the total, depending on the region. I will look for prices tomorrow.
So I think that under 10euro won’t be manageable.

About sharing of profits, I think that we’ll just have to be reasonable and clear in that. So let’s say 50% goes to modelling, 50% to other things, programming, music, organisation, textures etcetera.
Then we’ll have to make a good balance of splitting those percentages up between the different modellers.
Someone who contributed less than let’s say 2,5% of the whole thing won’t get a piece of the share, just because it would be too small and things would get too complicated. If they won’t like that, then they have plenty of time to do more.

That’s how I think about sharing profits. It would be rather simple, clear and justifiable.

I know that it’s a though decission to make, but we’ll have to do it. And rather quick too, because the host won’t continue on this scale much longer I guess.
By the way, I have had an offer from a friend who can maybe give us 200gb per month starting februari, but it’s not certain yet. That would give us some more time to continue on our current way and think about what to do with the final product.

@Zon Wernor: You sent me an email a few days ago isn’t it? (I recognize your website)
Your matte painting looks really great. Would you maybe like to do a matte painting for the enviroment of the city? So the pelennor fields, osgilliath etcetera. That would be really cool.

#507

Hey Janssen, yup I sent you an e-mail a few days ago :wink:

Well actually I’d prefer to work on modeling buildings for Minas Tirith than on the environment matte cause I don’t feel comfortable enough with matte making yet…
What I could do is modeling a building and trying to make a matte beside that if you ok.
Well just tell me what you think about that :wink:

Cya

#508

Yeah that’s fine with me too. Would you like to pick a building from the refs yourself?

#509

ok then yep i’d like to pick one, just don’t know what’s already been done…

#510

Ok, I see. If you send me a pic with the building pointed out I’ll tell you if it’s already done or not. (Pier.Janssen@Endless-dimenions.com)

#511

Ok gonna check this and tell you later by mail

#512

Fisrt of all i need to tell you that if u want 20 …than we need to make it worth 20…
second …the program is not fit for every computer(or at least for the most of them)…the requeirments ar very hy so this limits possible clients…
i also think that u should make a list … with all the members of this program…once on the list u should dedicate more time for this project and do your assinged work very careful and not superficial…not offer to join if u know u don’t have time or u are a bigginer in 3d building…
on the list should be max.20 people…because 20 should do all the job just fine…
once u have this list done u won’t change anything till the end…20 ppl from beggining and 20 in the end…and 20 share the possible money…(20 beside you and who else is incharge)

of course i sad 20 because i expect from each one to do hard work…not a building here and there…so this is my opnion…i’, sure i forgot something …but i’ll wright if i remember
…ah when is about money there are problems…i still think this shoud be free…it would be much easier…not so many problems…but …u decide…
now if my sugestions are wrong(even i have some doubts about them)please correct me…

#513

Yes that’s absolutely true. On the other hand, with every day that this project takes longer to finish, people buy new computers. And the requirements won’t change much.
But it surely limits our possible clients.

i also think that u should make a list … with all the members of this program…once on the list u should dedicate more time for this project and do your assinged work very careful and not superficial…not offer to join if u know u don’t have time or u are a bigginer in 3d building…
on the list should be max.20 people…because 20 should do all the job just fine…
once u have this list done u won’t change anything till the end…20 ppl from beggining and 20 in the end…and 20 share the possible money…(20 beside you and who else is incharge)

of course i sad 20 because i expect from each one to do hard work…not a building here and there…so this is my opnion…
Exactly my idea. This is the number one problem on this project. There are but a few people who do great jobs (and longer than just a few days). Most people that ‘join’ don’t even show up anymore…really strange.

i’, sure i forgot something …but i’ll wright if i remember
…ah when is about money there are problems…i still think this shoud be free…it would be much easier…not so many problems…but …u decide…

The problem is that a project on this scale without money isn’t easy. A host with terabits of data just isn’t free. I would like to have seen it without any money problem and without any problems at all. But looking at the hosting, it does get quite serious there…

now if my sugestions are wrong(even i have some doubts about them)please correct me…

Suggestions are never wrong! :wink: Thanks.
Oh and please contact me on email.

#514

well i’m glad that u agree with me…on all my ideas…
i’m afraid i don’t have any buildings to send u because .(i’ve sad this earlier)my little brother deleted them…and as stupid as he is he was very proud of his job…nevermind that…now…because u still didn’t answer i thought u don’t need help so i continuied my proj. and i did some more buildings i found on this site…so you could make an opinion by loocking at them… and if u accept my help i could start on building something u tell me…or as u sad maybe i could choose myself…ofcourse telling u first…
i have a question about that map that u did…why isn’t it complete…and i found here some buildings with some codes that weren’t on that map…please make me understand…

this are the buildings i’ve made:

P.S i appologies to those who made these buildings first… i didn’t recreate these with any wrong intention …

#515

maybe someone could answer me this:

i hope u observed…or it’s just me…
oh and there are more …:sad:

#516

When shooting the film they dressed the miniature different for each shot, to improve the composition. That results in contradiciting references.

Considering what you could do for this project, would you like to choose a building yourself too, like Zon Warnor?

#517

well i don’t think this kind of mistakes have place in a 13 oscar film…do you…and there are 3 mistakes in a place…really…that sakz…
…yes if it’ not made…i’d like to make 4-rf-06(in the picture bellow)…do i have a time limmit?

a had time to do another building…but now that i have a job …it’s the last :slight_smile:

and can u make more screens like this one

10628_orig_codes.jpg483x1000

#518

It aren’t mistakes. Like I said, they dressed up the miniature differntly for each shot, to improve the composition. At least, that’s what Alan Lee told me, and it sounds very reasonable.

4-rf-06 is already modelled, but 4-rf-07 isn’t.

#519

allright than 07 it is…

well to me it doesn’t sounds very resonable ,but i don’t want to argue on such a subject…i better go and work

#520

Very nice stuff guys! Keep it up! :thumbsup: