Microsoft Surface Pro 2

#25

Tell me how the touch-surface part of this setup equals keystroke combinations, hotkeys, Alt (for 3D nav in Maya, for example), Ctrl, Shift, or anything key-related at all. Touch and mouse are equated, with the right hand. Keypad and keyboard are equated, on the left. The G13 is simply much more programmable and ergonomic than the main keyboard.

This works well with Wacoms and with touch-screens. If you don’t like the suggestion, simply don’t buy one. But if you can’t understand the difference between a keyboard and a mouse, then perhaps you’re in the wrong field.

#26

Does seem a bit overkill for an on the go device… cintiq is an entirely different story at least other than the companions. Why not use a bluetooth keyboard? I use artdock on my fuji sometimes and it works but it does make my screen feel cramped at times. i’ve thought about a wireless bt keyboard for when I get my sp2 in dec… just a thought

#27

I tried out the companion at a store here and imo the surface pro 2 is better in every possible way. Wacom is way overcharging over what those Cintiq companions are really worth.

#28

Well, the Cintiq does have the size advantage, but I agree that they`re overpriced. What Wacom need is a competitor…

#29

So I bought the 128gig Surface 2 Pro (4gig ram).
I had a budget of 1k and thought this would be a nice tablet for general use.

My thoughts:

Overall runs well, As I’m typing this I have my 27" Dell hooked up to it, external keyboard and intous5 Tablet. This is in “workstation mode”.

In “portable mode” I’m finding the included pen a bit cheap or maybe they should have just supplied a standard Wacom pen :slight_smile: - Currently looking for alternative.
There are problems with the edges and corners of the screen not working correctly with the pen (accuracy drops a crap-ton).

So far tried Sketchbook Pro, ArtRage and just installing Creative Cloud so will see how Photoshop goes. Honestly the painting part is fine, but the non-tablet interfaces are what brings this otherwise sweet tablet down. That doesn’t mean it wont get better, its just not as straight forward as the Apple products IMHO.

I decided against the iPads because I’m not happy with them being a creativity device. For reading/browsing/games, sure… but I’ve wanted a Cintiq since forever and the Surface 2 Pro is the near answer to my prayers.

Going to also try Zbrush, just have to deactivate it on my workstation.

Anyway… good times for technology! finally we have a good tool for artists that doesn’t cost more than we can ever afford (Especially in this current work climate).

Any questions I’m happy to test

#30

if software developers would catch up to the touch-surface world, you wouldn’t have to lug that thing around for magic key combo support… it just wouldn’t be required. think out of the box a bit.

#31

You can use this thing called “Artdock” which shows common toggle keys (Alt, Ctrl, Shift, Space) as a floating UI. I discovered it yesterday after having the same question.
The UI hides if the pen hovers over it, so its not obstructive (does not hide from touch input).
I can safely use operations like ctrl-alt-spacebar for zooming out in photoshop etc without a keyboard.
Its not perfect, because it gets confused when your palm rests on the screen and your pen must not be tracking on screen either.

Another thing I’ve discovered: Grab the Wacom Bamboo Carbon Pen ($80)… it works with the surface and is a good replacement for the crappy stylus provided.

Other than that, battery life is great, photoshop is performing pretty well (A4 300dpi canvas and regular brushes does not have noticable latency). :arteest:

Still yet to try zbrush :stuck_out_tongue:

#32

I only tried ZBrush on it (not on mine), and it was a pleasure to work with.
I agree the pen isn’t very satisfying to hold, but if my Intuous pen works on it, that’s a non issue. Did you mention the Bamboo pen because it’s cheaper, or you tried the intuous pen and it didn’t work?

Thanks for the mini review, it read sensible and unbiased, so it was interesting.

Given it’s still early days for windows touch on tablets, and it sounds like things aren’t off on a bad start to begin with, I have hopes it’ll get even better.

Tempted to grab one to bring with me to sculpt on my holidays in a few weeks, but if not I reckon I’ll buy one some time in January.

#33

Got a 128 gb 4gb ram version of Surface 2 last week while I wait for the 8gb version to be in stock. Here is my review:

For starters the surface pro 2 runs way cooler than SP1. SP1 used to get warm quite often, SP2 is cool to the touch even after a five hour zbrush session with a lot of best preview renders.

The battery life is absolutely incredible. 7-8 hours easy doing non stop sketching/sculpting/animating.

Out of the applications I installed and tried:

Zbrush: Runs flawless. I was sculpting 8-10 million poly models with zero slowdown or lag. Download the art dock keyboard shortcut overlay and you are good to go.

Photoshop: Runs faster than on cintiq companion as far as brush lag goes. Perfectly usable but I much prefer sketchbook pro for sketching and painting.

Maya: Runs amazingly well. Honestly surprised how well it runs. I get 26 fps moving the everyman rig around the viewport and tuna here tested on his desktop and got 34 fps. Hook up the keyboard cover and a mouse and you can model/animate anywhere you want.

I pretty much have no complaints whatsoever. Can’t recommend it enough.

#34

Nice one sheep…

I was concerned the 4gig version wouldn’t be sufficient but I guess with SSD’s you kinda get optimum speed virtual memory (my guess).

ThE_JacO - The Bamboo (Carbon) pen is the only one that works… My intuos5 pen is not working… something to do with capacitive pen nibs and slightly different chips (although they are wacom) on the surface pro’s.
The Bamboo carbon pen is sold as a premium pen, so I dont think its a cheap pen in any sense.

In other crazy news, I saw the hackintosh community has successfully setup a dual boot osx mavericks and win8 setup on the surface! Means all my lovely mac productivity apps should run nicely.

If you guys pick one up… here are the links to the art dock hotkeys and some drivers you will need to get everything working:

Artdock and instructions:
Artdock

Wacom Feel Driver:
Feeldriver - Latest versions

I’ll post up some concept art or something… would love to see what you guys have been creating with it. The only thing I really miss is a hardware shift key as drawing in straight lines sucks on a glass surface… MAYBE… just maybe a screen protector might do?

#35

I actually like the surface pen, it is pretty much the same size pen I sketch with on paper so I had no issues.

The bamboo pen has only one button like the surface pen and doesn’t seem to be that much larger. I would love to try it out if I can find someone with a bamboo though. Modbook also makes a pen that works with surface pro and it has two buttons like intuos pens but it is stupid overpriced at $85.

Also the carbon is NOT the only one that works. The regular bamboo feel pens work as well, carbon just doubles the price for looking fancier. Just get the regular black or white bamboo feel pen.

#36

I came across this the other day… a “paint brush” stylus which seems to support the Surface.

Curious if anyone has tried it out?

http://www.sensubrush.com/

#37

The Sensu and the Nomad (http://www.nomadbrush.com/) are capacitive brushes that work with any capacitive touch-screen display. However, both brushes are not pressure-sensitive, so if you require pressure sensitivity for your work, you’re better off sticking with a Wacom Feel-compatible stylus. I think the brushes are best suited for classically trained artists (you know, the artists who use traditional paint media) because they’'re taught from the start how to hold the brush properly. Non-traditional and self-taught artists tend to rest their palms while holding brushes – and that doesn’t work too well with touch-screen surfaces unless you have palm rejection built into the hardware or software (or wear a glove as a low-tech hack).

I’ve read a few customer reviews saying that the brushes lose capacitance over time and stop working after while, but these were early adopters, so the technology must have improved if both companies are still around and offering different brush models.

#38

Hey guys I’ve had my surface pro for quite a long time and I’m about to upgrade to SP2.

I’ve been using it with photoshop. zbrush and 3ds max. If you have any questions I might try to help!

Just some quick thoughts: For me the only drawback is the screen size. If it was 12"+ it would be the perfect machine. Sometimes you will feel a little cramped.

Artdock is a must. It’s an all-in-one package and has overlaying shortcuts for maya, 3ds max, zbrush, photoshop, etc.

Get a PL-900 wacom pen or a Axiotron modbook pen. They have a 2nd button, just like an intuos pen.

#39

technokill, thanks so much for the info… the PL-900 is just what i was looking for. I picked up the bamboo carbon pen, and while it feels great and all… it only has one button

Also got the blue backlit keyboard… and its not bad. Thought the way you have to detatch/flip the cover to use screen can be a bit annoying.

I am returning my S2P tomorrow to swap because I’ve found the accuracy of the pen is off by a fair bit. At first I calibrated it to compensate, but I tested a different one today and the corners were accurate. Mine “drifts” when it goes close to the corners. Not a major issue but annoying when I try to close windows or use file menu etc.

So… if you pick one up and its not accurate, its probably faulty.
At the same time I’m going to see if I can get a good deal on the 256/8gig version and get that.
After downloading and installing my Adobe CC apps storage on the 128 is getting a bit small. I COULD put a microSD inside and get extra 64 gigs etc, but I’m saving that for photo trips.

One questions I have: anyone found a screen protector that feels a bit like the cintiq paper-esque finish when using a pen? I remember a friend showing me a screen protector for iphone that made it smudge-free and it had the same properties as a cintiq finish.

#40

Regarding to the accuracy issue, it’s been present with both sp1 and 2. However, things got better with windows 8.1, which gave users the ability to calibrate using more points than with win 8. My surface had the same problem. I updated to win 8.1, recalibrated and it got much better (although it will never be perfect near corners).

The thing is when you install the wacom drivers so you can get pressure in photoshop, for example, it overrides the default pen calibration and leaves with that crappy 4 point calibration. That s* can only calibrate well for the center, but the corners suffer from lack of points.

What I mean is maybe even if you try other units, as soon as wacom drivers kick in, you will lose some precision near the edges.

So far that’s the conclusion for most people when you hunt down threads discussing accuracy problems.

About the screen protector, do not get the incipio one. Bad. Any other brand you might find in amazon is alright. Make sure you get an antiglare one. As always, you will miss that bright vivid colors BUT you get antiglare and a paper-like feel. Remember to use the felt nib!

#41

Got the wacom bamboo feel pen yesterday for the surface. It feels way better than the surface pen and tracks much better as well. The only downside is the pen button is absolutely terrible and hard to press. Wish they made it stick out a bit instead of completely blending into the pen.

#42

Hey sheep you still getting the 256/8gb one? Isnt the 128/4gb enough?

I was hoping to upgrade my sp1 128/4gb but apparently the sp2 2568gb is out of stock! I have some friends going to new york for christmas but it seems there’s no way MS will refill their stock in time!

Ive been using photoshop and zbrush alright with the 1st gen, but 8gb would be awesome!

What do you think?

ps: feels kind of lame upgrading just for haswell, but it seems it’s the only option!

#43

The 4gb runs everything perfectly fine. I am mainly upgrading for the increased ssd space.

#44

8.1 got leaned down, but it’s still a bit of a hog space wise, so IMO 256 will really make a difference in the long run. On top of that even hacked 64 bit apps capped at 4GB (ZBrush) will use that on top of what the system and other running tasks take up.

There’s a good reason if the 256/8 is the only one out of stock. IMO it’s totally worth waiting for. I know I am (waiting for it to come back in stock) since it’s out of stock across the whole bleeding planet apparently.