Meet the Artist: Doug Ikeler, Sony Pictures Imageworks


#30

living_for_cg asks:

a question i have is that i have always had problem to choose a kind of style for an animation project,it is not that hard for a still 3d image,but when comes to animation i usually loose the main style in production, what majors should i know or do for having the same style in any part of an animation?

I am only guessing, but it sounds like you need to find a style that suits the way you work.

I know it’s difficult as a student trying to make a short that requires you to wear all the hats of production. I think for the benefit of your portfolio you should tailor the requirements of you project to only use those parts of production you feel comfortable with and enjoy. You will always end up spending the most amount of time on the thing that is the hardest for you to do and you probably wont be happy with it anyway.

Otherwise developing an artistic style to your artwork and animation really is the result repetitive projects (personal or professional). Courses you could be taking…Life Drawing, Composition, and any Animation classes focusing on timing.

Bug_Eyed_Earl asked: (nice avatar Earl)

I see Maxon is using a lot of Open Season imagery on their site these days. What of theirs did you use in your pipeline? What else did you use for the unique look?

How was your team broken up into sub-teams (The intro says you had 250 people, how many were animators, lighting, modelling, riggers, etc).

We used the Bodypaint portion of Maxon for all of 3D texture paining.

The basic production structure for Open Season is as follows: (numbers are from memory)

Layout-- 15 artists (10 rough layout and 5 final layout)

Animation —4 teams each led by supervising animator, each team is about 15 people.

Character Rigging and Support – 10 riggers and 5 support artists

Hair – 16 artists

Cloth – 7 artists

Effects – 18 artists

Texture Painter/Surfacers – 8 artists

Matte Painters – 5 artists

Shader writers – 2

Software Developers – 5

Lighting – 4 Teams supervised by CG Supes. Each team had approx 20 artists.

+++ various pipeline and support technicians.

cesarmontero asked:

  1.  How would you describe your work enviroment?(a pic would be great)!
    
  2.   How balanced is life at your work (health/work/personal time)?
    

We are situated near the Columbia and Culver Studios lots, so it is definitely a movie making atmosphere. Our actual 5 buildings are grouped together and each has its different emphasis. I am located in the Imageworks main building where most of the digital artists are located. My office is in what we call a Pod. I have the digital producer and most of the production coordinators around me. My office is also a sweatbox. That means that we do approvals with the artists in here. There is a nice large screen on one wall with a 2K projector that is driven by a linux box. The other buildings have the Art department in one, Sony Pictures animation in another, training in another.

How balanced is life at work? Good question. As a VFX that is what I hope to do the most for my team. With proper planning and management of expectations, we should be able to maintain realistic working hours so that everyone’s personal time is just that. It went pretty well on our first project. There was some overtime, but not near as much as we have worked in the past. Personally, I have a family, so it is very important that I don’t miss out on watching my kids grow up. No way that is going to happen. I expect the same for everyone on our production and we work very hard to make that happen.

SteveKey asked:

I’ve noticed there seems to be a lot of animal based cg films being released recently, and I was wondering if, while in production, you took note of what some of these other films were doing and adjusted accordingly, or if you disregarded what other films were doing and just followed through with all of your original thoughts and plans.

We are getting this question a lot lately…go figure.

I have many friends that work at the other studios so I had some sense of what they are working on. But that is really all, just an overview of story and characters. No specifics.

These movies take about 3 years from start to finish. You really cant try and second guess what the other guy is doing. Because it is really hard to try and make a good story alone, you cant be readjusting as you go. 3 years ago we did have an inclination that there were some other animal movies coming out, but beyond that we didn’t know too much.

Strob asked:

I would like to write a bit about the softwares you used for Open Season to create the special effects. And how does a big studio like sony decide to create a new software instead of using an already existing solution. And also please talk to us about the pro and cons of integrating a new software in a pipeline for special fx.

Wow, that really could take a while to do this question justice. I’ll try and give the short answer.

We use Houdini for our Special Effects. We use Renderman with a proprietary lighting interface to render. We use Maya for just about everything else. Sounds easy right?

Nope. The real flexibility to our system comes from in-house plug-ins, scripts and general “glue”. We customize just about every step of the process. The main reason this is done is for reasons like reusability, efficiency, and to achieve the highest level creativity. Every show usually has to take on a new (or new version) software. This can be painful and difficult, but the rewards are usually achieved in the next project. As long as you don’t change too much at once it usually goes well.

LucentDreams asked:

what were some of the logistical considerations in making a 2D stylized film that also had to play in a Stereo format. Seems like quite a challenge already to make a 3D film look more 2D, and then to take that and play it in stereo (3D IMAX DMR).

The conversion to stereo was actually done by another team who specialize in doing this. They were using our data though obviously. Besides the fact that we really never set up the composites to be done in stereo (stereo was an after thought) the main problem was the amount of 2d tricks we were doing in the comp. Roto mattes and extensive filtering made it tough on the guys who were doing the conversion. Honestly though, they kicked butt. They were finaling over a hundred shots a week to get this thing done for IMAX.

Also, did you use any sort of a frontal projected grid deformer to help mold the 3D geometry into the ideal 2D poses?

No, our “Shaper system” used circular cross sections to deform the character pose. It had no sense of screen space. In other words, the animator pushed and pulled the cv’s on the deformer rings (there were about 10 from head to toe) to shape their poses. The rings had about 6 cv’s usually and that was enough to handle all views that’s you may see the character from.

cgnetworks_le asked:
To be a VFX supervisor, the man at the highest ranking in the production, how do you find your balance between the art and technology? Do you consider one important than the another?

Art or Technology?

Yeah, I still don’t know the answer to that question even though I have been asking it for 17 years. As always it comes down to the artist in the seat. Those who are the most successful usually have found just the right balance of both.

And I think you worked your way up from a junior artist to a highly-respected VFX supervisor. So, do you see any change in the way you look at VFX works?

One of the first things you have to come to terms with when you enter supervision is that you are not on the box anymore. It is very easy to feel your worth and contribution when you see the exact pixels you made on the screen. As a supervisor and eventually VFX, I had to find my pride in my team’s work and my worth in what I could do for them to make their work as good as possible.

Also, thesedays, many artists are jumping around VFX for film, cartoon and video game production. What do you think are the challenges, advantages and disadvantages of those coming from different production pipelines? I believe a lot of SonyImage’s artists are there for many years focusing on realistic animation and rendering. Did you have to spend some times with the crew to get used to this cartoony, squash-and-stretch style of animation?

I think jumping around the various CG business’ is fantastic. Everyone should do it, it makes you a more versatile asset. I mean it:wavey:. It did take a while to adapt to the style of our movie, but that is usually the case on most productions I have been on. Every movie is a new beast.

Winner asked:

I’ve been animating for about 6 years, and I’m used to working with very loose blocking and working in a more straight ahead manner… which leads me to my question; I would like to know if the animators were generally required to conformed to a specific method of animating their shots ? … to be specific, was it common for shots to be blocked in heavily, with progressive levels of detail that would be signed off in stages, or were shots approved less rigidly on an initial key pose blocking pass, that would allow more options for animators that like to work straight ahead ?

Our animators worked both ways. It really depended on the performance of the shot and to some extent the individual who was animating. Big performances with large sweeping motion for example, they usually blocked out. The Directors would approve the blocking on shots like this and they may see the shot several times before it went to final animation. Talking head shots could often be animated straight ahead as I saw it.

Drake83 asked:

What do you expect from the future of animated features?
What do you expect from your own future (maybe with Sony or wherever you want)? Any idea?

Well I think we all know that there wont be as many talking animal movies in our future.

That is after the 2 rat movies and the 2 penguin movies come out:D. I do hope that there is a day when a movie like Final Fantasy has a bigger audience. I am not saying whether it was good or not, it just didn’t seem like the public was ready for it.

My next project at Sony is Hotel Transylvania a monster comedy. After that? Who knows? I am pretty sure that I will stay in animation for a while though.


#31

Hi! i cant wait to get to the theater to see this piece, it seems amazing

My question would be about a subject that is not very common to read about in the web:

How do you handle the shading/lighting workflow? how about the surfaces/characters shaders with diferents kind of light moods that still have that continuity in the look-and-feel?

i dont know if my question is a little dumb, but i wanted to know because a had a hardtime myself with that subject lattely when trying to get a specific look that feels the way i want with diferents lights moods

Keep on the explendid work!!

And thanks in advance :slight_smile:


#32

Hello Doug,

I am a beginner CG artist and attempting to make the transfer from military to civilian world. I am currently working towards my Bachelors in CG art and design and will graduate within a year. For someone who would like to start on the right track is there a specific CG software to start out with? I have a choice of 3Ds Max or Maya with my college and I have chosen Maya due to the fact that I would like to get into the film industry. Should I invest in Maxon Cinema 4D or New Tek Lightwave 3D also? I read what you wrote about how it is better to be an “expert” in a field instead of a generalist. Is it the same with software? Thanks for answering our questions here and great job on the movie!!

Dave


#33

Hi Doug, Congratulations on your work! I have a simple couple questions:
What Software did you use and why?
How long did the longest scene and frame took to render?
At what resolution did you render the final images?
After having the rendered images are they printed to film or how is that process?

Thank you for taking your time, i love your work keep it up!


#34

it’s really really good

good job


#35

oooo… i like!


#36

hi Doug Ikeler,
i love it! :slight_smile: and thanks to your talk and sharings at Siggraph06. i was there in your talk! amazing! :slight_smile: i love the “shapper” that you all used to define the shapes of the characters! amazing! :slight_smile: cant wait for the show in theater.


#37

hi Doug Ikeler,
First of all I`ve been waiting for this movie since your siggraph trailers caught my eyes.
I wanted to know more about your asset management in general and example of tools.
what did you find working best for this type of a feature what went wrong and how could this part of production be even smoother.

Thanks!!


#38

Hi Doug

Great to have you here, you guys did a great job with open season:thumbsup:.

I want to ask you about the hair.

-How do you iluminate the hair?..do you use image base lighting with HDR images?..

-If you do use HDR image to iluminate the hair can you explain a bit about that and how the hair was render it?

thanks a lot for your time.

Cheers


#39

Thank you for your time. :slight_smile: I’m just wondering where you went for your education and how long it took to get your full education.

Thanks!


#40

i like most the water…the fur also very nice.cant wait for the open season opening in cinema


#41

first off i want to say that the stylization in the movie rocked. It reminded me alot of the olden day cartoons i loved as a kid, except 3d.

I was wondering about the stylized human characters. Like the stylization of the hair of Beth the Park Ranger. Most films have straight hair… but beth had a very wavy feel to it? was it Maya hair? polygons with a texture? a rig? It just looked so good for wavy hair.

Thanks for your time!


#42

Hi there!

Let me start by saying that I enjoyed every second of the movie, I went with friends and watching the show made me proud knowing that I work in this industry.

I have a couple of questions:

1. How big was your influence as the VFX supervisor, on creative decisions made by the film director?

-In the Siggraph course, you mentioned that the backpack naturally posed a huge technical headache, but you had to make it work anyway - I wonder if in other cases you managed to reduce production time by avoiding curtain issues…
-For me it was appearant in some sequences in the movie:
a.When Eliot and Boog walk around in circles in the grass, and flatten out the area in which they later sleep on = avoid intersections.
b.The Flood sequence had some very strong camera moves, which kept visual water-creature intersections to a minimum.

2. Do you see yourself directing a movie in the future?

-This might be a strange question, but I’m asking this because although I’m practicaly doing VFX Supervision currently, I came to the industry with a belief that my true mission is telling stories interestingly and passionately working as a film director. I also believe that a good VFX sup, is using a mixture of techincal qualities, managment qualities, AND the same kind of creativity that makes a good film-maker. I wonder if you agree.

3. Can you tell a little about the flood sequence - how did you plan it out, carry it through set design, modeling, layout and all the way to final compositing?

-I got a glimps at the technologies you used to make this sequence work, I would be happy to get a deeper insight of the proccess…

4. Are the same water simulation technologies being used on “Surf’s up”?

I’m asking this because from the look of the trailer (Which is amazing, BTW), it seems like the movie is going to have a lot more fluids simulation than “Open Seazon”, and I wonder if the solution displayed at Siggraph is not too heavy production-wise for such a film.

[b]5. How do you see the future of high-budget feature CG films, now that much-lower-budget films are proving to be successful at the box-office?

[/b]- And could you please elaborate more on your belief that CG films are starting to become more mature, Are we going to see R-rated CG features in the future? Isn’t that realm allreay dominated by live-action movies, with living, breathing (Half CG allready), actors?

Hehe, Oops, sorry for the amout of questions…

Thanks for having this session - I can’t wait to answer some questions myself someday :wink:

Take care and good luck in the future!


#43

Hi Doug, great work man!

I have maybe a strange question:

from your experience, is there any “age” limitations for a person who want to work “as a pro” in this industry (cg animation), if he spent lots of years in research then found that this industry is his world!, I mean in other words, do the employers consider the age of the candidate, and how they think about this point?

many respect and thanks


#44

Thanks for the insight Doug, appreciated.


#45

EzequielM asked:

How do you handle the shading/lighting workflow? how about the surfaces/characters shaders with diferents kind of light moods that still have that continuity in the look-and-feel?

If I understand the question correctly, you are asking how do we change mood/look of the lighting and the characters that it affects and still maintain continuity.

We do what we call “sequence lighting” that means that our Art department paints color keys from a few of the important shots within a sequence. A sequence is defined by a series of shots within a given location, within a particular part of the story line. The lighting “rig” is set up to match those color keys and then that rig is used for the remainder of the sequence. The most important continuity is within a sequence as compared to the whole film. Most of our shader standards (character) are setup up in a very ambient and “average” situation so that they respond well to most of our lighting rigs that we apply. That might be where you want to look first as this is a common problem, that is, setting your characters initial look up with lights that are too extreme to handle different situations.

Diesel1064 asked:

For someone who would like to start on the right track is there a specific CG software to start out with? I have a choice of 3Ds Max or Maya with my college and I have chosen Maya due to the fact that I would like to get into the film industry. Should I invest in Maxon Cinema 4D or New Tek Lightwave 3D also? I read what you wrote about how it is better to be an “expert” in a field instead of a generalist. Is it the same with software?

I personally would just dive deep into maya. You could have done the same with Max, but Maya is a good choice for film like you said. I would augment it with a compositing package (shake or whatever you like) and just stick to that.

Climax asked:

How long did the longest scene and frame took to render?
At what resolution did you render the final images?
After having the rendered images are they printed to film or how is that process?

I think our longest frame was something like a 40 hours to render
.didn’t happen too often.

We rendered at HD 1:66 , 1920x1156.

We delivered in 2 formats, digital cinema (which was just the HD files converted to cineon files) and film which used a film recorder that exposed the digital files to film, then print as usual.

yoni-cohen asked:

I wanted to know more about your asset management in general and example of tools.
what did you find working best for this type of a feature what went wrong and how could this part of production be even smoother.

This would really take a huge amount of explaining, so rather I will just tell you where we used asset management.

All geometry, both as a component and a hierarchy, is managed as it is loaded into maya.

That geometry carries shader assignment, maps, etc into the scene render.

All other assets like images, scripts, particle data etc. go through versioning and publishing controls.

All scene information and history is controlled by a production tracking system that is integral to getting things done right and on time.

Sorry I cant be more specific.

yolao asked:
-How do you iluminate the hair?..do you use image base lighting with HDR images?..

No, we didn’t use HDR. Our hair is rendered through Renderman using RiCurve as the primitive. This allows for mostly normal rendering as if it were just another piece of geometry in the scene. There are two majors differences to that: The shading down the length of the shaft of hair comes from deep shadows and since the hair is not part of the ambient occlusion data that we get, we cheat that by looking up ambient occlusion for each hair from the surface below it.

Octobomb asked:
I was wondering about the stylized human characters. Like the stylization of the hair of Beth the Park Ranger. Most films have straight hair… but beth had a very wavy feel to it? was it Maya hair? polygons with a texture? a rig? It just looked so good for wavy hair.

It is not maya hair, but we use maya hair as an interface for what we are going to render through renderman. IOW, the hair artist combs, adjusts length and density, and builds volume all through Maya GL hair representations. We then have proprietary software that converts it for renderman as well giving it characteristics, like the waviness that you pointed out, for the render. Hair at render time is around 100 to a thousand more hairs than the hair artist is working with.

Ahmattu asked:
from your experience, is there any “age” limitations for a person who want to work “as a pro” in this industry (cg animation), if he spent lots of years in research then found that this industry is his world!, I mean in other words, do the employers consider the age of the candidate, and how they think about this point?

No, not really. Our studio has an age range of about 18 to 60 years old. This industry is just now getting to be more mature, it used to be that everyone was young because the industry was young. Of course there may be an age where you really cant imagine sitting at a computer for 8+ hours straight. :slight_smile:

thoughtcriminal asked:

WOW
I’ll do my best to answer all your Q’s, but I may start losing feeling in my fingers

:slight_smile:
1. How big was your influence as the VFX supervisor, on creative decisions made by the film director?

-In the Siggraph course, you mentioned that the backpack naturally posed a huge technical headache, but you had to make it work anyway - I wonder if in other cases you managed to reduce production time by avoiding curtain issues…
-For me it was appearant in some sequences in the movie:
a.When Eliot and Boog walk around in circles in the grass, and flatten out the area in which they later sleep on = avoid intersections.
b.The Flood sequence had some very strong camera moves, which kept visual water-creature intersections to a minimum.

My job, almost more than anything else, is to let the directors know what their options are, both technically and creatively given the possibilities and limitations of our software.

My experience allows me to pull from a bag of tricks (as you noted) as well as aesthetics that have worked for me in the past. There are times, like the back pack, where given all the data I can muster the directors still feel it is that important and that savings will have to be found elsewhere to compensate. Every day is a negotiation to some degree. There are times when it was my idea and there are times when what you see is all that the time and budget would allow . Mostly , we are able to deliver what the director s ask for.

2. Do you see yourself directing a movie in the future?

-This might be a strange question, but I’m asking this because although I’m practicaly doing VFX Supervision currently, I came to the industry with a belief that my true mission is telling stories interestingly and passionately working as a film director. I also believe that a good VFX sup, is using a mixture of techincal qualities, managment qualities, AND the same kind of creativity that makes a good film-maker. I wonder if you agree.

This is definitely an avenue to directing if you have that talent. Me personally I am not sure, I haven’t spent much time in story and that is a crucial part of directing. Never say never though, because I said I would never be a VFX.

3. Can you tell a little about the flood sequence - how did you plan it out, carry it through set design, modeling, layout and all the way to final compositing?

-I got a glimps at the technologies you used to make this sequence work, I would be happy to get a deeper insight of the proccess…

Too much to type
. But as someone else pointed out go here:

http://mag.awn.com/OpenSeason/

That should give you most of the answers.

4. Are the same water simulation technologies being used on “Surf’s up”?

I’m asking this because from the look of the trailer (Which is amazing, BTW), it seems like the movie is going to have a lot more fluids simulation than “Open Seazon”, and I wonder if the solution displayed at Siggraph is not too heavy production-wise for such a film.

We did do a hand-off to Surf’s Up as they would be using Houdini as well. I believe they used a lot of it and then continued to develop a lot more.


#46

Hi, nice of you taking the time to answer all these questions. Really enjoyed the movie :slight_smile:

I’m qurious about how you manage the hours at work versus hours away from work. When working on a project for example. Say you have four weeks to go from start to finish with a group of people. Do you manage to stay within the 8-9 hours a day barrier and having the weekends off, or do you, as i do, tend to work waaay beyond those limits, like 15-18 hours a day + some eventual sleep-overs at your desk, taking you job home with you etc., just to get the job done faster and/or better?

I find that most people do this, sacrificing any life they might have outside the current project.

Thanks again!

  • Marcus

#47

Hi, Doug.

I’m very curious about the techniques you used to achieve the awsome 2D/Graphic style of the BGs and all enviroments. How did you get pretty organic things to look this designy and stylized? I mean rocks, the trees, close to camera mountains; the enviroments in general.

Thanks for sharing the wisdom!

PS:OK, I’ve read the AWN piece, that was very informative. It covers pretty well what I asked, so let me be more specific then:

What modelling and texturing considerations were taken to achieve the style when you created the library of the most detailed (Close up) enviromental elements?


#48

Hi Doug,

I really appreciate the time that you have spent answering all of our questions, (have you developed RSI yet??)

How do you juggle your commitments to 3D with life outside the studio? I’m dedicated to learning Character Animation but also feel you need to have an active social life to appreciate the world around you in order to convey life through a flexible sculpture to good effect.

What I’m saying is basically, I feel sorry for my girlfriend staring at the back of my head whilst I follow my dream. Do you have the same problems and how do you deal with them?

Cheers,
Lewis Cooper


#49

Hi Doug and thank you for sharing this info with all of us.

I really admire your work and love the work you did for the Road to el Dorado.

I will extend an open invitation to visit the South Florida Siggraph Chapter based on your availability.

Our chapter has being blessed with guest speakers from all the major studios, such as Tippet, ILM, Rhythm and Hues, etc.

Please let me know if you would be interested and I could arrange for your visit.

Many thanks,

Jorge Castillo
fll.siggraph@yahoo.com