Maya users after a 3dsmax non instance copy with full history must use duplicate input graph assign names error


#1

for info:
maya users after a 3dsmax style,
non instance copy with full history must use duplicate input connections however
not shader will not update if you use maya instances.
( duplicate input graph seems completely different, drops all poly tweaks as well)

maya instances dont seem to update instances shaders though. this is different to 3dsmax.

might help someone, took me time to figure it out.
please seehttps://www.flickr.com/photos/93465359@N03/48645162517

still looking to however
convert maya instance to object with full history
script for ie “maya instance to copy with duplicate input connections”
. its a 3dsmax thing and good so what use it.
makeUnique.mel cant seem to get it to work but somebody had a go


#2

just when you should you found a consistent way to mayas instancing

maybe not maya users wanting a 3dsmax style history copy use duplicate input connections or input graph who knows

in the case of a revolve, revolve input curve set world default to local.

select geo to 3dsmax syle copy with history, have to use
duplicate input graph and regroup, duplicate input connections will not work
in this case… not sure why
please see: and copy bottom the old post
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93465359@N03/48663867853

maya is beyond logic some weird non logic that i dont understand


#3

realised maya is like a circle all the 3doperators that have’d used other programs go round outside the circle,

those that havent are lucky, are inside the circle ,but then they never see outside the maya circle

when everybody is trying to work inside and outside the circle.

old post doesnt help, the copy keep all history, with whatever you throw at it.
but might offer yet another solution to mayas node panel mess.

compare post above:

and everybody knows the truth wether theyve used 3d or not,
they know what they want to do, how to do it,
but can maya do it fast and easily.

and if somebody comes back with a post about “dead end programs”
if maya carries on these workflows it can join them


#4

my latest attempt failed not sure why

revolve ,group,move and copy with full history

use ep curve set1 profile
must use quads general say u number 1 v number 11not cvs as… geo doesnt fit cvs needed xxxxxx
def double transform set world to local group …geo def inherit transform off to on
cannot use duplicate input graph on geo multiple curves created in odd group spots
cannot use geo_duplicate_connection_FAILED_broken
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93465359@N03/48668946467/


#5

for extrude on path…group move and 3dsmax type copy with history
tube…all profile and path ep 1
closest endpoint of path
use profile normal
fixed path
tess poly quads cvs

group_extrude_word_to_local__path_and_profile_SUCCESS_group_duplicate_input_graph_SUCCESS
curve_profile_inherit_def_on
curve_path_inherit_def_on
extrudedSurface_group_def_inherit_off_set_on

generally_duplicate_input_connections seemed to fail

assign unique names important


for revolve…group move and 3dsmax type copy with history
revolve…profile ep1
tess quads general u num 1 v num 9 for 8 divs

curve_profile_inherit_def_on
revolveSurface_group_def_inherit_off_set_on
group_revolve1_set_world_to_local_used_group_only_duplicate_graph_SUCCESS

generally duplicate_connections seemed to fail

assign unique names important


then go extreme group both the revolve and extrude groups above, repeat the 3dsmax style copy
and used_group_only_duplicate_graph_PARTIAL SUCCESS not really curves names start to breakdown,
even with assign unique names on

Nested groups are hard, but for fully parametric essential

where we are at
see
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93465359@N03/48670147871/


a nested group seems to have problems
maya_grouped both apoly_revolve_and an extrude_3dsmax copy_a_SUCCESS_
with duplicate input graph ok till use instance problem if assign unique off names instance ok
but convert

instance to object leaves SAME NAME ERROR
does convert instance to object need assign unique names option box
CONVERT INSTANCE TO OBJECT MAYA SAYS THEY ARE THE SAME NAME IE INSTANCES
BUT HERE THEY ARE THE SAME SAME BUT NOT INSTANCES

IS THIS ANOTHER CATCH22 YOU NEED TO ASSIGN UNIQUE NAMES IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES BUT CANNOT
for duplicate object want on, but grouped instances want off…not sure…


these were groups:
group_revolve_a_and_extrude_b_group_OK
group_revolve_a_world_to_local22
curve_a_inherit_transf_on3
revolvedSurface_a_inherit_transf_on_on
group_extrude_b_world_to_local2
curve_b_extrude_profile_inherit_transf_on2
curve_b_extrude_path_inherit_transf_on2
extrudedSurface_b_inherit_transf_on_on


group_revolve_a_and_extrude_b_group_OK_grp_duplicate_object_assign_uniq_SUCCESS
group_revolve_a_world_to_local23
curve_a_inherit_transf_on4
revolvedSurface_a_inherit_transf_on_on1
group_extrude_b_world_to_local3
curve_b_extrude_profile_inherit_transf_on3
curve_b_extrude_path_inherit_transf_on3
extrudedSurface_b_inherit_transf_on_on1


group_revolve_a_and_extrude_b_group_OK_grp_duplicate_object_assign_uniq_SUCCESS1_instance_FAILED
group_revolve_a_world_to_local24
curve_a_inherit_transf_on5
revolvedSurface_a_inherit_transf_on_on2
group_extrude_b_world_to_local4
curve_b_extrude_profile_inherit_transf_on4
curve_b_extrude_path_inherit_transf_on4
extrudedSurface_b_inherit_transf_on_on2


group_revolve_a_and_extrude_b_group_OK_grp_duplicate_object_assign_uniq_off_SUCCESS2_instance_SUCCESS
group_revolve_a_world_to_local23
curve_a_inherit_transf_on4
revolvedSurface_a_inherit_transf_on_on1
group_extrude_b_world_to_local3
curve_b_extrude_profile_inherit_transf_on3
curve_b_extrude_path_inherit_transf_on3
extrudedSurface_b_inherit_transf_on_on1


group_revolve_a_and_extrude_b_group_OK_grp_duplicate_object_assign_uniq_off_SUCCESS2_instance_SUCCESS1_instance_

convert_instance_to__object_NAMES_SAME_ERROR

group_revolve_a_world_to_local23
curve_a_inherit_transf_on4
revolvedSurface_a_inherit_transf_on_on1
group_extrude_b_world_to_local3
curve_b_extrude_profile_inherit_transf_on3
curve_b_extrude_path_inherit_transf_on3
extrudedSurface_b_inherit_transf_on_on1


BOTTOM GROUPS WERE NOT INSTANCES BUT HAD SAME NAMES
HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IN MAYA

please seehttps://www.flickr.com/photos/93465359@N03/48674250918/


#6

3dsmax style copy with history
1: build curves,polys,set pivot… freeze transforms

2: group elements, mesh result, inherit transform group will turn off, turn back on
3: build curves all inherit transform on as per fault
4: moving group…default will give double transform…
change all input curves from world to local space
( still maya not consistent ffd keep world space others not sure?)

5; this will instance PARTIALLY SUCCESS,
but child build curves and mesh will not be assigned unique names NOT SURE IF BAD

6: to do a3dsmax style copy with history use duplicate special
with copy duplicate input graph assign unique names on. SUCCESS.

7:this will instance PARTIALLY SUCCESS,
but child build curves will not be assigned unique names NOT SURE IF BAD

8: converting this instance to object will PARTIALLY SUCCESS
all child build and mesh elements will still
have same name as instance but they are not instances

do not use duplicate connections as this is an instance
that you can make changes on top of history of the instance,
without affecting the instance

MAIN PROBLEM IS ASSIGN UNIQUE NAMES DOESNT SEEM TO WORK IN ALL CASES
NOT GOOD FUN IF BUILDING A CITY WITH LOTS OF WINDOWS

and bear in mind this is not a nested group good luck with that one

over to dr d and dr o,
i am sure they will be switching to houdini soon

please seehttps://www.flickr.com/photos/93465359@N03/48680624596/
bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

follwed by explanation to onouris
yep
instance is an exact, copy wherever you want it

(only used an instance after to test wether the group
would move without double transform and wether it would instance) in previous post.

the final aim is do not want an exact copy, want a copy with full history like 3dsmax not an instance

so selected the top of the group( contains build curves and mesh)
of the start object which was not an instance and then

used the duplicate special copy with the option used being duplicate object graph with assign unique
names on

this gives a copy with full history like 3dsmax, renames all parts of group
you can then instance this copy not the start group, with assign unique names

but this does not seem to give the group contents a unique name, only the group itself, so
when you convert object to instance maybe at end it doesnt have a unique name.

then tested the convert mesh object it has no history, can move its vertices, to prove its not instanced ,
other versions no verts move, but it has if fact the same name as previous instances

i thought instances had the same name but different end number
so expected curve profile 1 or 2 or 3 …actually got…seem all to be curve profile 1
so expected curve path 1 or 2 or 3…actually got…seem all to be curve path 1
so expected curve mesh 1 or 2 or 3…actually got…so curve mesh 1
in the group 1 or 2 or 3…actually got…in groups 1 and 2 and 3


#7

another example, that ended up with a same named object that was not an instance, and
multiple FFDS being created in other groups when convert instance to object used at end


workflow was see attached pic

3dsmax style copy with history
1: build curves,polys,set pivot… freeze transforms

2: group

elements, mesh result, inherit transform group will turn off, turn back on
3: build curves all

inherit transform on as per fault
4: moving group…default will give double transform…

change all input curves from world to local space
EXCEPT FFD KEEP WORLD?

this is the start group for instance and duplicate object tests
to do a3dsmax style copy with history use duplicate special
with copy duplicate input graph
assign unique names on. SUCCESS.

ie DUPLICATES WITH HISTORY BUT NOT AN INSTANCE


next part:

this was an instance of the START group, not the duplicate input graph WORKS as instance


next part:

this was an instance of the START group convert this instance convert to object,
note FFDS IN LIST will double under other groups…BAD BAD BAD

also the group members still have the same name as start and instance group members
NO LONGER AN INSTANCE BUT SAME NAME ?..BAD?

this was an instance of the START group convert this instance convert to object, note FFDS IN
LIST will double under other groups
also the group members still have the same name as start and instance group members

IS THIS NORMAL MAYA BEHAVIOUR OR SHOULD MAYA AUTOMATICALLY RENAME CONVERTED INSTANCES TO OBJECT
SHOULD ALL THOSE FFDS APPEAR IN OTHER GROUPS, if lots of groups and hundreds of instances hard to delete.


next part

proof even when you unparent it keeps same name, and script line says its not an instance
moving verts does not move start


please see
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93465359@N03/48685838952/


#8

thanks onouris whole new way of working,
also noticed mash can take a grouped object with history as well.

the attached is a 3dsmax users workflow to see what aiming for regards nested groups,
and build elements all in final position. copying with full history, note
in 3dsmax groups are called controllers is that different from maya?
very fast, except uvs probably slower, lofts fast uvs
by the time maya has connected one, 3dsmax probably done all combinations.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93465359@N03/48687105306/


regards your example a try out on this cant seem to get it working.

try on real world case below:

create an ep curve profile at 000
revolve poly surf gen u1 v9 ,8 sections,
sel all edges harden edge
create an ffd ffd ( setwith local ? so bendy and all settings) and splay bottom ffd verts out
set world to local for revolve input
leave ffd on world
inherit transform on all

presumably to move all of this at once i need to group it( i just selected all components and grouped)
above settings give no double transform moving around


can either use duplicate input graph with assign unique names on top of group
this gives 3dsmax working copy,

if i select just the revolve mesh shape it wont duplicate rest of the group


in this case duplicate input connections seems to break relationships with revolve curves.


is your system suitable only for a mesh, and no build curves,no ffd, will definatelt need
hard edges to simplify to 1 in mesh connection and is it a mesh outside a group.


the point is to take a working history copy of the revolve curve and ffd to the new position


#9

linking with onouris post

Here is a curve revolve + ffd under a group, i even added a “choice” node to switch between 2 different curves (you could also just swap the connections).

And as you can see i can move rotate the whole thing without a problem and keep edit it.

And like the other gif if you select the top level group, and duplicate with the history you will have the exact same copy with all the nodes and connections.


https://forums.cgsociety.org/uploads/default/original/3X/0/f/0f720a2063629c34994eb8640da9eb2fed50ceb6.gif


onouris,well tried to follow your last post

overall using duplicate input connections found get no history
using duplicate input graph, works for one group, but errors when instancing that , and converting
those instances to object
creating ffds in other groups.

found a making a group sometimes switches off inherit transform, though not on a consistent, basis, always have to switch on, poly surfaces normals usually flipped by default.

not sure how you did the ffd and how you connected it, before or after group, and how you scaled it.

grouping a revolve,grouping an extrude, then grouping both, doing duplicate input graph, instances of
and converting to geo…
created all sorts of chaos

please see attached:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93465359@N03/48691034267/