Maya DirectX11 Technology Viewport


#153

There are years and years of bitter frustration pent up on these forums. All it takes is the word “maya” to bring down the wrath of the swarm.

I just want to shout out how much I appreciate Shawn, Duncan and the rest of the team that takes the crap we throw at them on this forum and still sticks around. :slight_smile: Thanks guys!

You’re right, start a thread with maya or max and it can get messy very quickly. Ken on the max side gets just as much of it as the guys on the maya side.


#154

I think it is ok to have strong opinions and lots of passion, but like anywhere else in life, you generally get much further if you express them respectfully and in the appropriate place and at the appropriate time.

If you don’t, you stand the change of just coming across as an angry, uninformed person (while you may not be at all). And that makes it much harder to consider your opinions valid.

And quite frankly, it makes it unpleasant to deal with you, so why would I put myself in that position? I’d much rather seek out those that can have a passionate, but civil discussion.

Criticism is absolutely fine. Sometimes picking the wrong words (especially online) is also ok. You don’t have to sugar coat everything or subdue your passion.

But some people are just plain rude and off topic on top of that. And continue, post after post, to do so. You can’t blame anybody for just simply ignoring you and your wishes. After all, even at the ‘evil empire’, most of us are simply human and especially the developers and designers are just as passionate about these tools as you are.

After this thread though, I can see why most prefer not to interact here.
If you were in their shoes, would you come back to a place where people do nothing but chew you out?


#155

@kees

I really think you shouldn’t even notice any comment if you think they are not appropriate.

You give informations about what new feature mean and seriously, thanks for this.

But a good old rule: “Don’t feed the troll”.

In Maya, the troll are not bugs, not some little missing features, the troll is mental ray integration.

For many peoples here, every news related to Maya now look like: “Could it be mental ray related?.. Ehm… No… Damn… Again a viewport thing…”.

I can understand it’s hard for you to present and explain a cool feature you was working on (I must say DX11 is an impressive demo) and would like to discuss about and see peoples just complaining about something not related to your feature. :frowning: Just keep in mind their hasn’t been any good Maya rendering news since many years (No, pass system was not a good news) but, during all this years, many real time related features.

You say it’s related to AD priorities. The problem for many here is that AD priorities are very difficult to read.

I also sometime get carried away… As many, mainly about mental ray integration (From what I see here and there over the internet, this is the biggest Maya problem).

Every peoples you’ve seen here and look angry about this are angry and use bad words because they spend many years trying to explain, quietly, their situation over this forum, over AD, etc…

It hard for users (me the first) to see a such good render engine with a lot of potential to just stay, completely abandoned, in the hand of AD, for an unknown reason (that, everyone suppose is marketing related), just because “some”, at AD thinks it’s better for users to don’t improve it and, at the same time, all actual users don’t think like this…

I can understand users using Maya feedbacks are not those who buy 300 licenses by studio. But if so many ask for something very specific and from which their is many way to solve the problem, you need to understand this create the feeling for users that from many years now, AD don’t understand they needs (or simply don’t care).

I’m not saying they are right to use bad words when they are talking to AD guys. As you said, this is not benefit, this will not help them to solve the problem, this doesn’t make AD guys thinks they could help us.

But keep aware this guys (including myself) are workings days after days trying to find workaround to achieve they work at the good time and still have a kind of “total blackout” form AD about the MR situation.

So if you think you can’t do anything about it, just ignore them (me). Don’t take this words for yourself as you can’t actually do anything.

You think users are angry about AD so they report their AD hate to you. I don’t think so. :frowning:

I think users are completely desperate about the MR situation so they catch any opportunity to “feedback” AD about this. And you, guys, are this kind of opportunity. You are peoples working on Maya, with who they can “discuss” about the situation, crying about their situation. With who they can show how it’s hard to work with MR not because it’s a bad rendering engine but because AD don’t give any resource on it and won’t to leave the maya2mr to the community.

Have a good WE! :slight_smile:


#156

Having devs participating on these forums is really cool and important. It’s though as it is often abused by pointless rants, but it obvious that everybody is just passionate about its art/job. Be it content creation or tools developing.

The main issue here IMO, is that our conventional 3d apps are struggeling to stay relevant, where game/film asset creation is increasingly taken over by other, specialized apps. DirectX viewports is part of that, as well as project skyline like efforts. (no major news on project skyline this year at siggraph was weird btw)

There are game studios out there that use max/maya just to create a library of base animations. Even film&broadcast markets that need fast turnaround times are starting to invest in realtime game engines.

That’s why apps like modo, try to appeal to markets like CAD/design vis etc…
ADSK looks like its on a fire sell strategy with its suite bundles, with no real focus and signs of game changing innovations on the horizon. You can smell it and that makes everybody involved somewhat nervous I guess.


#157

the day VP 2.0 can show particles and instances and everything else, will be the day I celebrate it. Fluids are a breeze now in VP2.0 in maya 2014 but It is useless when I cant see my particles, but its still pretty to rotate my high rez explosion sim with decent FPS like in Houdini :D. But for sure I know have a new viewport when it comes to modelling only… VP 2.0 is very good


#158

How is it a niche feature? Literally every game dev who use Maya will make use of it. If you think being able to animate/model a game character while displaying how it will look in the game is a “niche feature” you don’t know what you are talking about.

Also I am getting really tired of your constant Modo shilling Kabab. I own the software and love it as well but it is not even in the same ballpark as Maya when it comes to game dev or many other things. It doesn’t even support multiple uv sets yet. No way to display uv seams on the viewport, no way to display hard and soft edges, crap baking, crappier transparency display on the viewports, no support (yet) from substance and various other commonly used tools like that, terrible viewport performance when animating compared to even the default maya viewport let alone vp2.0 which made HUGE strides over the years as far as animation performance goes. I also like how when Luxology devs post on their forum everyone is all praises yet some of you guys treat the Maya devs who post here like a bible salesman who knocked on your door 7 am on a Sunday morning. Please stop it.


#159

I didn’t know if i was going to bother but here goes…

Of course its niche out of the entire Maya user baser how many people will use this feature 5%?

I like Modo maybe to enthusiastically sure its not Maya yet for all things somethings its better at somethings its worse at others but for the $ its far better value and each version gets closer…

You can have multiply uv’s sets fyi just go to the list view and click new modo shares uv’s across objects if they share the same name so if you want your object to have a unique uv set it needs its own name… The baking is pretty good I’ve had better experience baking in Modo then i did in Maya but i never baked displacement maps from high res meshes which i believe is the main complaint for most people and a valid one, also as you mentioned the edge weighting and some display stuff for sure could use some work…

Animation is not really my thing i use Modo for modelling and rendering which it’s significantly ahead of Maya imho.

I think the reason why people praise lux so much is because they communicate way better with users, there will often be a hot topic on the forum and Brad usually addresses it on the Modcast, the developers are very active on their forum helping users only Autodesk person who really does this is Duncan… They also are very candid about when they stuff up they don’t really make excuses they just tell it how it is. I think Autodesk burnt a lot of trust they had with the userbase over the years with some lack luster releases and harsh license policies…

Anyway I’ve put my money where my mouth is and moved on i doubt i’ll post in this forum segment again.


#160

I really appreciate it when Autodesk employees chime in. And I really appreciate all the wonderful changes that have been made to Maya. Don’t let the trolls get you down, most of us tune them out anyway.

No 3D package can be perfect for everyone. I have done a lot of programming and I can tell you that the more types of things a software does the harder it is to make it work at all. Comparing sculpting in zbrush to sculpting in Maya is downright silly. Maya will not be the best at many things, by nature. The more you, and your software can specialize the better, and your software will be at that one thing. But then you, and your software, are a one trick pony.

I have been sitting next to a max user for almost 6 years now. I can appreciate that Max does many things better than Maya, that doesn’t make me want to switch and it doesn’t make me unhappy with Autodesk. The viewport in max is better, period. We don’t do game development and I see almost every day how a good viewport can help with non video game work. The improvements to VP 2.0 are exciting for a lot of people outside of gaming (which I bet is more than 5% to begin with). Max has a great way of previewing texture blending by vertex color. And the viewport matches all the built in renderers. I can do this in Maya, but its awkward.

Comparing software is useful, but its easy to get carried away. I view Maya as a tool for teams. Everytime I hear someone championing a new package the first thing I wonder is,

-how good is the referencing?
-how good is the scripting language?
-how well does it scale when you are using a mixture of physics, rigging, high poly models, and high res textures?
-how well does render layers work?
-can I fully navigate every element in my scene and trouble shoot complicated issues?
-does it work well on our farm?
-can I quickly hire a contractor to fill a gap without retraining them?

Maya is the best at that list, still could use improvement, but its the best. Its not a glamorous list, but its what matters most to a lot of people. When I see a release that is light on new features but the bug fix list spans many pages it makes me giddy.

There are other great packages. For solo work I still miss Lightwave sometimes. I had clients say “I have an idea I want to animate but I need it 3 hours from now”, and I was able to deliver. It wasn’t my best work but it was fast as hell. Having said that, all my best work has been done in Maya.

I will be the first one to say that if your a one person shop, there is a good chance there is better software out there for you. I work with teams, I work with Maya.


#161

Anyway I’ve put my money where my mouth is and moved on i doubt i’ll post in this forum segment again.

We’ll try to miss you, then.

I enjoy many other tools outside of Maya, but have never felt “burned” by Autodesk and especially not by the devs, who have gone out of their way to help me every chance they can.

And the new viewport enhancements fully rock not just for game development but for my work too, arch/viz. This is not a niche, this is construction, which is the single largest industry in the entire history of humanity. If you think it’s a niche, you’re living in one right now.


#162

:applause:Brilliant.


#163

To bad you missed the entire context of the discussion… When this thread/tech was first shown off it was marketed in such a way that it was percieved by many people and not just myself as a major update to the base viewport which would give a really high quality game like display of what your going to render.

As the discussion unfolded it became clear this was a specific feature for game developers which bummed some people out since the VP2 in 2013 by most accounts was still rather incomplete…

Since the 2014 has come out and from what I can tell VP2 uses dx11 and has been improved which is what everyone wanted to begin with…

Continue your witch hunt if it amuses you…


#164

I intended no hunting at all, but was simply disagreeing with you about VP2 being a niche upgrade. It can be very useful in many areas of work. Modo also can, and just about every other application has some use obviously in its areas of expertise. If another program can help you get your work done, then by all means, use it! There is no need to be “loyal” to a piece of software.


#165

Man, I step away for a few days and it’s WW V!! I have a relevant question…I hope…has anyone tested VP2 (old and new) performance using CAD data? I’m thinking automotive CAD. I had the unpleasant experience of constant crashes and I’m wondering if anyone else had a similar experience. I know this feature is hardware dependent, but any suggestions on how to better optimize the data to avoid these kinds of issues, or is this an unfortunate consequence of the CAD data being crap to begin with? Any thoughts are much appreciated. I can be civilized you see :slight_smile:


#166

The debate was over the DX11 viewport which was seperate from vp2 at the time, my entire gripe was why they weren’t putting resources into vp2 which more people would use instead of a feature aimed at high end game developers since the later would benefit more people…


#167

You can put your gripes to rest then because the Maya API is platform independent and so is VP 2. So any work that had to be done to support DX11 viewport directly benefits VP 2 API.

DX11 was a much requested and much appreciated features by a significant number of users.
You just don’t happen to be included in that group.
Just like many of our users never use some of the features you value the most.

You can also put to rest the illusion that OpenGL is on par with DX11 on all platforms.
Simply not true. There would be no way for you to run OpenGL 4 on a Mac for example.


#168

Oh i have and I’ve moved on :slight_smile:

But it is good to see VP2 improve…


#169

@rBrady
I love your post, specially your list. It make me realize a lot of thing. :buttrock:

I’m very interested by this. Does this mean the Viewport API will be more “modern” and platform independent (choice between DX/OpenGL)? As DX et OpenGL 4 API have almost the same functions? I just wonder about the VP2 future. i’ve read documentation (a pdf) about “how write viewport code with VP2” but didn’t really understand. It’s seems to be a way to remove direct drawing (even if Maya 2014 have an interesting new class for this).

Just my two cents on this: This is not a OpenGL problems here. Many devs are angry against Apple who never update it’s drivers, even if hardware is capable. But OpenGL “fragmentation” is one of it biggest problem, specially on Apple hardware…


#170

I second that…


#171

One thing thats been broken for a while now in VP2 is the way it handles textures. With VRayMtls, it’s applying a serious gamma correction curve to every texture making the viewport excessively dark. (For the obvious, no I’m not using any gamma correction nodes).

Hopefully can be fixed in the next update soon.


#172

Not sure if this was posted… its been out for a while…
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6vnCotQ5Yw

soooo these uber shaders render perfectly in Mental ray I’m assuming because they wouldn’t (?) spend so much time on development or letting us know we could set up a shader that would have to be stripped out for rendertime. Right? hahaha Yeah,… as broken as Viewport 2.0 is, I’m sure of it. {sarcasm}