Master and Servant Challenge FAQ/Answers/Questions (Update 24 March 2005)


Wow, that’s quite a disappointment. The idea about Christmas publication sounds great though.

Ouff. goes to get a cup of hot cocoa to get over the sad news


It seems very strategic to announce this once the contest is over. Hard-copy exposure was the main motivational factor in my case, far more so than the prizes on offer. I can publish the “making of” on my own site or anywhere else come to that. Like everything else, I guess it’s all about profits.


I’m a teacher, ‘making-of’ is a part of life for me. It was a chance to be published…

It’s poor form to make the announcement way after the contest, as a throw-away post in the middle of a huge thread. I think the hundreds of people who worked for two months to contribute to your book have at least earned an email and an official announcement page on your various sites.

Yes, the challenges you host are a free privlige, thank you.

The high-quality art and many hours of work we gave you is a privlige too. Thank us with some common courtesy.

Sorry for the angry post. I understand the business aspect of the decision, but not the communication of it.


I may be sorta nooby like 'round here, have yet to get one of the books, but already have it budgeted from my next check :slight_smile: They look absoloutely phenomonal.

Now, indeed this is quite disapointing news about the cancelation of the challenge pubs BUT, maybe this is a call to the rest of us in the community to try to help find solutions and try to give CGNetwork back some of the support that they’ve so graciously giving to us artists.
Totally understand the profitability factor, or lack there of so we don’t need and explanation just maybe some headbang to come up with possible solutions.

  1. As Patina mentioned, maybe members can donate to a “Publishing” fund, you could post a running total along with the need amount to publish x amount at x per book.

  2. Maybe CGNet could put them together in a nice PDF? Then we could download, buy, whatever, and we could print it out ourselves if we wished?

Just a couple suggestions, and I know we’ve got the brainpower in the community, now can we bring it together for the happy ending? :applause:

Yeeeth Maaaaathta, me wants precious books!!!


Personally I am not too enthusiastic about releasing a PDF… But the best of CG Challenges indeed IS a brilliant idea! Lots of tutorials and a huge variation of themes! :slight_smile:


:cry::cry::cry: that is terrrrrrribbbble new…i was really looking forward to the M&S book…waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


It seems very strategic to announce this once the contest is over. Hard-copy exposure was the main motivational factor in my case, far more so than the prizes on offer. I can publish the “making of” on my own site or anywhere else come to that. Like everything else, I guess it’s all about profits

Yup, that’s how i feel too. That’s the main reason why i joined the challenge at the first place. But i met a lot of good people and made some new friends along the way, which was a blessing in disguise and very thankful for that, and i’m very happy i did the challenge.

I’m still very sadden by this though… being publish is probably one of the most honorable thing an artist can have…
Oh well, that’s life i guess. It never is fare.


I don’t think anyone should be blamed for this step, I think if I were in the same position I’d do the same. A bit wierd communication strategy , though.

No sales, no publish. I can understand that. Charity is great, as long as you have something to eat yourself.

Life goes on. Any news on judging ???

Just a one-liner like, in two weeks or any day now, would really be appreciated !


pixelkeg: I did make an announcement of it in the main announcement forums and here as a secondary post. Another email announcement is scheduled to go out to all the CG Challenge participants soon as we’re going to send an update on the judging to keep everyone updated. I posted these announcements after numerous people kept enquiring about the book and we had to make a quick announcement so that everyone is kept in the loop.

We were only able to make a decision now after the Challenge because the Grand Space Opera book just started shipping two weeks ago and we needed to get the combined sales statistics for GSO and the MachineFlesh book. We could not have done it sooner because we still didn’t know if we were going to publish another book or not.

In that respect, it is clear that we have done our job at communicating this to the general users in the most timely and sincere manner that we could have done. I do not feel that this announcement deserves any huge front page plug or publicity surrounding it, as it only affects the CG Challengers who took part in this specific Challenge. We also do not need the negative publicity as many people are already misconstruing this as though we’re going out of business - we’re not. There just isn’t a demand for the CG Challenge books and we’re discontinuing the line, that’s all.

I understand and empathize if you’re disappointed and angry, however, we’ve done our best at communicating with our artists and building the community spirit here. An email is scheduled to go out to the CG Challenge artists with the judging updates/status and the book announcement today.

To the rest of you guys – this does not change the aspects of the CG Challenge. We’re still going for print quality productions because we want artists to practice producing for print. We’re finding that many of you are submitting your images to EXPOSE’ (some are getting into print and even winning awards) and this is great! The content from the making of’s will be published on CGNetworks - access for free to the greater community (I just can’t see this as a bad thing), and in future, we intend on using future Challenge content, making ofs and galleries in our magazine.

The CG Challenges are a community event and we have done them 17 times now. Each CG Challenge takes a phenomenal amount of our time and resources. If you calculate it, the CG Challenges alone can hire one person full time to run the four Challenges a year – that alone is not a trivial cost. The purpose of the books were two-fold: to celebrate the Challenge, and to help support it. We did our market research and 99% of Challengers supported the book idea and wanted to support us by buying a book. We soon found out that this is all lip service and people won’t put their money where their mouth is. This is despite the rave reviews that we’ve gotten from people who own the books.

For now, this does not change the CG Challenges, it just means that there’s no book. And there’s no point in publishing a book if not enough people buy them to cover the cost of producing it. It’s that simple.

Thank you,



I didn’t realize there was a possibility of going to print until the announcement there would be none. Shows you how up on current events I’ve been. Duh.

I enjoyed the challenge tremendously, it gave me a kick in the seat pocket to create something, and that will more than likely be my only reward. That’s okay by me. Everything else is gravy.

Draw on.


Just to reiterate – Robert Mibus (who is now in charge of all the CG Challenge administration and is taking over my role in running the Challenges) will be emailing all the finalists (people who submitted their final images) today with an update on the judging and the books.




On my part that’s ok, as long as we can submit our image to Expose :slight_smile:


Thanks for the update Leonard…

Thats a real shame… my machine flesh entry made it into print for the machine flesh book, and I consider it one of the recent highlights of my career… too bad the chance of that happening again is gone.

But thanks anyways, who knows, maybe in a year or two markets will shift and make books like that more worthwhile.


Mike Phillips (DV8)


Leonard and I have been emailing each other about this and everything was smoothed over in a friendly way.

Thanks to Mibus for emailing everyone with the update.

Everyone should go buy some books!



Now that “support” via challenge book is not possible, I think it can lead to a some side-effects. One thing is that there may not be enough resources to keep up challenges as they were to this day. We may see the amount of challenges being reduced from 3-4 times a year to a 1-2. Not necessarily next year but who knows at this stage?

If that would not happen, I think some other things have to be done, like limiting how many or who is going to be accepted to a challenge. Or changing rules somehow that it comes easier to administrate, like if you do not keep your WIP at certain level you drop out.

Well, from what I have read It also can be a possible, that because of a “lack of book” there is not as many challengers next time and it “naturally” becomes easier to administrate.:shrug:



Hey Pasi,

Some of your thoughts are right, but personally i think it’s not the challengers buisness.
We did our job with our entries…that’s our part, do it better year after year. Am sure it’s quite hard to manage free challenges…
About book…sad news but other books are on the market too. Challenge books are optional. If you have an outstanding work that will be published, am sure fine stuffs always have a forum in printed media. If you’re able to support the community you can do it on lotsa different ways. Leonard and Robert were clear and am sure they could write pages about these topics, but no reason to do. Facts. So let the wheel spin and let art be the most important here. Work, work and work this is our task.



I did not meant to sound like I was telling them what to do, but speculating what may happen in future. Anyway, it’s not a bad thing to be aware of these things, and therefore even give ideas that would be come handy if situation gets worse. I mean, we can throw ideas and admins pick them if they like them, right? Not necessarily right away, but later if they feel something must be done.



Since the challengers own the copyright to their own images, they will still benefit from the publicity. To be honest, not many people would actually buy the challenge book aside from challengers and people directly involved in the community. On a practical level, it’s enough to say you have won the award…and the reputation of cgnetworks for its books, articles etc would ensure the rest. It’s enticing to have the piece as hard cover, but no one says you can’t post your work for expose.
Either way, most people who enter the challenges see them as a way to develop artistically and get feedback for it. A tiny minority are in it for the publishing- I would go so far as to say probably only about 10% are worried about hard-copy publishing.

If your work is good enough, it will be welcomed elsewhere.:slight_smile:


gotta admit that was a main motivator for me entering the contest but overall it was still a well run contest imo.


Can you tell if emails were sent, please? I didn’t recieve any :slight_smile: but I can see my image in finals…

Just recieved it, sorry for distubing :slight_smile: