Manhunt blamed!


#41

uhhh dude, thats my point. I guy does not play a game for any other reason to be entertained. Not to learn something. Put your glasses on and read the post.


#42

Retailer drops Manhunt after the media fuzz:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=ret&aid=3890

…wich is kinda sad imo , because they are looking for the blame in the wrong place. Obviously the kid is screwed up in some way. My first idea would be to look at how the parents and society have been treating this kid.
I agree with timothyD that games like this can be an outlet for aggresive energy.

CML


#43

C’mon, let’s not go there. Pls?


#44

I have to agree with the post about consequences vs. punishments. Growing up my mom was the primary disciplinarian, we got the butt swat when we were bad. We knew it was coming as soon as we misbehaved. My dad never dealt out punishments, however. He would talk to us about what we did wrong, why we did it, etc. The effect of this was that we realized that we disappointed him. That was far more effective than any loss of privilege or punishment. It became the primary motivator to not do something wrong. Over time this translated into disappointing myself and other people besides just my dad.

As far as Video Games go, as kids we had computers, not consoles. All our friends had the Nintendo and then the Super Nintendo, and we were jealous. All was had was a big beasty 8088 with a 1200 baud modem (talk about awesome!). However, this forced us to learn how to run the computer, run programs in DOS, load up games in basic, other fundamentals that I have been using ever since. I grew up with games like Kings Quest, the Dr. Brain series, Reader Rabbit, Kingdom of Kroz and other classics. My parents did not try to keep us from playing violent games, they just bought the games that they thought would be good for us to play.

Just my 2 cents on this. Personally, I will try to steer my kids away from this kind of violence, if they want to play video games, they can play Zelda or any of the Final Fantasy’s (or at least the ones that came out before FF8). There are lots of fun games that kids can play without the violence. At the very least it will take some real thought to get anywhere in the game, and hopefully they will come to appreciate the challenge of these games and see the GTA’s and Manhunt’s of their time as no-brainers and no-fun.


#45

Another thing, most violent videogames are rated M, so you’re not supposed to be able to buy them unless you’re 17-18 (I forget which).

Most videogames cost 50-70 US dollars.

Where are young children getting these games?

So, the parents enable the child to have the game either by giving them money, or buying it for them, then when the child does something violent, blames the game company? Who’s fault is THAT?!

“I bought my 12 year old son that crack cocaine, I knew it was an illegal drug, but I didn’t know it could be so horribly addictive. DAMN THOSE CRACK DEALERS! Why doesn’t the government do something about this?!”

Kind of extreme, but you get the point.


#46

“Grand Theft Auto makers causing media trouble again” :rolleyes:

Enough said.


#47

Odd that conservatives with traditional Christian religious upbringings don’t generally blame God for Eve’s fall.


#48

children who act violence influenced by a game… sigh

this is why parents exist. might as well get pregnant, have the baby, and then let it grow up alone at gaming conventions.


#49

I imagine that it is safe to assume that no one chiming in here is a murderer, or their children are. The main problems with violence in society are not the mojority of people. You guys may all very well be fine and your children fine, but there is not denying that there are MANY people out there that are not. And no doubt some are the problem individuals who end up killing and stealing and raping…The point is not that 90%-99% of the people who engage in imorale fantasy roleplaying have no noticable side effects. It is the ones who do. I don’t want my wife or child to be on the recieving end of a psycho (as I am sure none of you would). So why promote entertainment that MAY lead to this end in some. It certainly has no other value. Is Rockstar really so creativly lacking that they cannot come up with anything better? Or is the easy money just too good? I am not saying these games need to be banned or censored, I am wondering why people continue to keep these guys in business. If they (Rockstar and the like) feel so strongly about polluting the industy with this stuff, or I should say the money is that good, then they should be held liable to suffer when a deranged lunatic snaps and blames their game. Other industies are liable for their products, even when problems arise out of misuse. Just as the murderer needs to own up to their end of responsability, and where applicable, the parents theirs, so do the ones creating fantasy murderer roleplaying in the entertainment medium primarily aimed at children.


#50

actually… (sorry for the double post here)

Maybe violent games are the SOLUTION!

Rather than ACTUALLY going and stealing a car, killing a guy with a hammer, raping a girl, robbing a bank, conquering the world…

Everyone can just SIMULATE these experiences in these wonderful games! (Japanese ones for the raping and stalking genre I might add) They prevent all these crimes from happening! =D

lol

and to the guy who posted above… don’t even start talking like that about games… get on the Gun Control topic first- it kills a lot more people than Rockstar can/ever will.


#51

I was raised in the 90’s, I hear about deaths all the time. A kid was killed (with a serrated knife) in the middle school I went to. There are beheadings in the news all the time. There were fights in school. I played Doom when I was 4 or 5. I’ve been playing shooting games most of my life.

I would never get into a fight because I don’t want to hurt anyone and I don’t want to get in trouble. I don’t verbally assault people because I don’t want it to escalate into violence. I have GTA, my uncle has Manhunt but it hasn’t affected me negatively. My 3 siblings are pretty much the same, except they have been exposed to video games their entire life because of myself. I think the parent is the one who should teach the child what to do and what not to do. If the kid has some kind of mental problem I don’t think one game will set him off. That lack of common sense is not the developer’s problem, because Manhunt is for entertainment and it doesn’t teach a kid how to use a weapon. And don’t give that stupid argument about “if that is how kids entertain themselves what does that say about society” What kinda stuff have you people pulled in your dreams that you’d never do in real life. Engaging in the collision of two polygonal surfaces in a virtual world is not the same thing as killing someone.

Before I start going off an a tangent and completely forget what I’m saying, I’ll finish here.

So why promote entertainment that MAY lead to this end in some.
If your that emotionally unstable I think any influence, no matter how small could set you off. Thoughts are sometimes generated by things that are at first glance completely unrelated.


#52

Games don’t kill people! Hammers do! i’ll stop now


#53

You shouldn’t say bad things about Rockstar just because of one game. They published Max Payne and Max Payne 2 which are cool games. The made Red Dead Revolver, they made the GTA games. I personally enjoy playing these games.


#54

after a little more digging i found this line from cnn

"Peter Joyce QC prosecuting told the court that the defendant had planned to rob his younger friend to help repay a drugs debt. "

here is the article

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/07/29/uk.manhunt/index.html

LONDON, England – Campaigners are stepping up pressure for a violent video game to be banned after it was blamed for the horrific murder of a 14-year-old British boy by an older friend.

The game, Manhunt, is described by its promoters as a “sado-masochistic” game in which players gain extra points depending on the viciousness of their killings.

Warren Leblanc faces a life sentence for repeatedly battering Stefan Pakeerah with a claw hammer and stabbing him to death after luring him to a local park in Leicester, in the English Midlands.

The 17-year-old pleaded guilty to murder at Leicester Crown Court Wednesday.

Britain’s Daily Mail Thursday carried a front page headline: “Murder by Playstation” and another saying: “Horror images on computer drove teenager to kill his friend aged 14.”

Outside the court, Stefan’s parents said Leblanc had mimicked a game called Manhunt, made by Rockstar for platforms including Playstation 2, in which the players score points for violent killings.

His mother Giselle claimed her son’s “inherently evil” murderer was “obsessed” with the game and called for it to be banned.

The game was banned by censorship officials in New Zealand six months ago and one campaigner had written to its producers warning the “murder simulator” could lead to copycat killings.

Giselle Pakeerah, 36, told the UK’s Press Association: "I think that I heard some of Warren’s friends say that he was obsessed by this game.

“I can’t believe that this sort of material is allowed in a society where anarchy is not that far removed.”

Stefan’s father, Patrick, a civil servant, added: "The way Warren committed the murder this is how the game is set out, killing people using weapons like hammers and knives.

“I don’t play these games but if they are influencing kids to go out and kill people then you don’t want them on the shelves.”

U.S. Lawyer Jack Thompson, who is campaigning against the sale of violent video games to children, told PA he had written to its producers warning that there would be copycat attacks.

He said there was evidence to suggest that teenagers playing such games had difficulty distinguishing between the fantasy and reality.

In the game, the more vicious the killing the greater the points scored by the player.

One of the skills involves sneaking up behind a victim before attacking them.

The court heard Wednesday that Leblanc had struck Stefan over the head with a claw hammer from behind, sparking the prolonged assault.

‘Not isolated’

Thompson, speaking from Miami, Florida, said: "I wrote warning them that somebody was going to copycat the Manhunt game and kill somebody.

"We have had dozens of killings in the U.S. by children who had played these types of games. This is not an isolated incident.

“These types of games are basically murder simulators. There are people being killed over here almost on a daily basis.”

The court heard how Leblanc armed himself with two weapons and killed his victim “in cold blood” having persuaded him to go to nearby Stoke Woods Park, known locally as “The Dumps” – to meet two girls.

He confessed to the killing when found covered in blood by two police officers shortly afterwards.

Peter Joyce QC prosecuting told the court that the defendant had planned to rob his younger friend to help repay a drugs debt.

IT student

Mitigating, Rod Price, said Leblanc was “a happy boy and popular pupil”, had received good reports from teachers and had never before been in trouble with police.

He had been an IT student at a college in Leicester and wanted to go on to higher education, said Price, adding: “It begs the question what was going on in this young man’s mind at the time of committing this terrible offence.”

Judge Michael Stokes QC adjourned the court case to September 3 for pre-sentence reports but said Leblanc could expect a life sentence.

A review on the Web site Videocity says this of the game: "The sheer gore of this almost insane game keeps you killing for thrills, and not so much trying to survive.

“Manhunt is by far the epitome of what all governors and statesmen complain about when they discuss the violence in video games and other entertainment methods. Never has there been a game with as much gore, and violence then this.”

CNN.com reviewed the game in June and said: “Warning: ‘Manhunt’ raises the bar for video game violence and gore. It’s not just part of the game, it is the game.”

Classified 18

A spokesman for the Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers’ Association told PA: "We sympathize enormously with the family and parents of Stefan Pakeerah.

"However, we reject any suggestion or association between the tragic events in the Midlands and the sale of the video game Manhunt.

"The game in question is classified 18 by the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) and therefore should not be in the possession of a juvenile.

"Games are played by all ages of people, from eight to 80, and all are subjected to strict regulation. There is no evidence to suggest a link with events carried out in everyday life, as many eminent experts have continually concluded.

"Whilst we cannot comment on behalf of the publisher of the game in question, the procedures that it adopted were entirely responsible and in line with legal and industry codes of practice.

“In conclusion we would add that for the most recent records available, less than 1% of games sold in the UK are rated 18 plus by the BBFC.”


#55

Please… Someone find a game-violence article that doesn’t have Jack Thompson quoted in it! :cry::banghead:

Part of the problem… Not part of the solution…


#56

Honestly, you can’t buy better publicity for a game than this. There’s no doubt, the game gave him the inclination to grab a hammer and go bashy-smashy to his friends skull, but at the same time where were the parents? Didn’t they know what kinds of video games he was playing? I hate to say it, but it’s really not the game makers fault this obviously mentally ill kid, went out to kill his friend.

I’m hard pressed to see how any 17 year old with proper mental faculties would get the idea that bashing in another persons head with a hammer would be anything but horribly, horribly wrong. Blame the game all you want, but it takes two to tango.


#57

man I am so nostalgic for the times when people could be entertained by howdy doody, norman rockwell paintings and apple pie. Now we need guns to the head, splattered brains and grand larceny to make us happy.


#58

what about the good 'ol Beatles…bang bang Maxwell’s silver hammer made sure that he was dead…

e.


#59

Why do people buy these games? Like I said before for entertainment. Whether you agree with that or not it doesn’t matter. Just because rockstar makes money from these games they should have to pay money because of some psycho? Get real. Its not rockstars fault that you’re a raging loon.

Guns don’t kill people, people do. I’ve yet to see a gun that could load itself, put a bullet in its chamber, aim and fire. If we ban everything that was used to kill someone then we’d all live in giant rubber balls. People have been killed with everything from guns, knives, to even baseball trophies.


#60

Once again, we must ask the question of “how did this game fall into the hands of one too young for the content”.

It wouldn’t surprise me if he walked into the retailers and was sold the game without question at all. :rolleyes:

But then there is another issue - where is the line drawn in “entertainment”? From what I hear, in ManHunt, as the player you can stalk members of the public and murder them no matter how innocent they are…and get rewards for it? And along with suffocating victims with a plastic bag…hmmm. Harmless fun, I’m sure…

Its even worse than GTA allowing you to mug people.

Why not say “well, its just a game - so we can do what we like with it…lets make a game where the player is a peadophile!”…after all - its only a game.

If people keep hiding behind that, then we are going no-where fast.