Manhunt blamed!


#175

No they are not. I’ve never seen that happen either. Maybe it’s the people you hang around with which is in the minority?

[Edit]
Just wanted to mention this point again, because it seems to keep being overlooked:

[b]The child in question was a drug dealer who decided to deal with a client that had not paid for his goods.

[/b]That’s right, not many of the supposed news sources decided to mention this fact, being that just another drug kill wouldn’t be news worthy, but if they left out that little fact, it would make better news.

[/Edit]


#176

Maibe the kid has taken bowling lessons in the morning of the hammerin?:shrug:

That can lead to some seriously violent behaviour, or so i’m told…

edit:[size=2][color=white] charleyc: sorry for not seein your post before, but …[/color][/size]

“Q_B…you compared this game to teh way a woman dresses and rape. You are absolutly right, they are comparable. I try to pursuade my wife to dress, in what would by todays standards, conservatively. I do not, and will not as long as I have the athourity, allow my daughter to dress like a slut as well. Ask any law enforcement officer and they will tell you that this is a very high cause for rape. It excites a part of some people to that point. Just as games can obviously do. As I stated, I am not trying to tell anyone what they can or can not do or make. I am simply wondering why (as it seems many others now are) would this company want to contribute to society in such a way?”
well well, first the “dress like a slut” is really a very controversial thing … also didn’t quite get what u ment by trying to persuade wife dressing conservatively???
would u consider a short skirt, high boots, very open shirt, to be “dress like a slut”? If so, i may resent that, as so much more ppl here :slight_smile:

Anyways, what matters is: the company doin the game has the same amount of responsability as the company making the “slut clothes”. get it? I just can’t believe it would cross anyone’s mind suing some fashion company cos of that.


#177

So let me get this straight.
The kind of entertaiment you choose affects your behaveouir.
Let me see.
So the guy who goes to a strip bar and hire’s a hooker is made more sexual preverse??
The nerdy kid who spends all his time wataching amime turns into some weird prev, due to the anime??
The kkk member is made MORE racist by his using as target pratice mook afro-american plastic models??
The redneck is made more redneck by watching a redneck show like Gerry Springer?
The guy who goes into a bar to get drunk is made into a acholocilc beacuse of the bear he drinks?
Or let us consider it the other way around.
The christain that now watches ONLY christain moives is now more non-violent due to his vieiwng christain moives?

In all these situations you can see that the entertaiment is only a differnt experssion of what is already underlying within the person. It is a reflection of what is inside. That is how it has always been.


#178

Originally Posted by WaZAr:

So let me get this straight.
The kind of entertaiment you choose affects your behaveouir.
Let me see.
So the guy who goes to a strip bar and hire’s a hooker is made more sexual preverse??
The nerdy kid who spends all his time wataching amime turns into some weird prev, due to the anime??
The kkk member is made MORE racist by his using as target pratice mook afro-american plastic models??
The redneck is made more redneck by watching a redneck show like Gerry Springer?
The guy who goes into a bar to get drunk is made into a acholocilc beacuse of the bear he drinks?
Or let us consider it the other way around.
The christain that now watches ONLY christain moives is now more non-violent due to his vieiwng christain moives?

WaZar, a guy who hangs out in seedy strip clubs (and let’s face it, they’re all seedy) and hires a disease-addled woman who sleeps with untold numbers of men for sex is not exactly a choir boy. A kid who watches cybernetic monsters with ten penises rape a woman dressed as a Catholic school girl is not what I’d call a normal kid. The KKK example is too obvious to even comment on. And, a guy who goes to a bar to get “drunk” probably IS a drunk. And so on.


#179

*So the guy who goes to a strip bar and hire’s a hooker is made more sexual preverse??

He does if he makes it a habit.

*The nerdy kid who spends all his time wataching amime turns into some weird prev, due to the anime??

If the kid begins to consider watching anime (or any other form of TV) is better than doing things in your own life, or worse relates to anime characters more than people, than that is a problem.

*The kkk member is made MORE racist by his using as target pratice mook afro-american plastic models??

The difference here is have those feelings and acting on them.

*The redneck is made more redneck by watching a redneck show like Jerry Springer?

Cmon, who hasn’t felt dumber for having caught of Springer on!?! :wink:
“JERRY! JERRY!” :scream:

*The guy who goes into a bar to get drunk is made into a acholocilc beacuse of the bear he drinks?

Not the beer he drinks so much, but the people he does drink with, can have an impact.

*Or let us consider it the other way around.
The christain that now watches ONLY christain moives is now more non-violent due to his vieiwng christain moives?

There is that whole “born-again christian” thing.

I won’t say your points aren’t without merit. I will say however that our lives and our views are shaped by our experiences in life. The media is part of the experience and, as a result, influences us to a certain extent. It is silly to argue it otherwise advertising would cease to exist.


#180

charleyc: sorry for “hammerin” again on your reply, but…
“It excites a part of some people to that point. Just as games can obviously do.”

Great! Its a good thing being visually “excited”! But you don’t go and rape women just cos they excite you!

So because it “excites” some wackos does it means it is wrong? Nope, the wackos are wrong. The wackos are bad. Not the games nor the provocative clothes. Of course it excites. It’s the point of it. Games are suppose to “excite” u too, in some point. But normal people, even “excited”, don’t go and make their thoughts into reality at the expense of others. Mentally ill people do. That’s why they are mentally ill.

Besides, the company does not “want to contribute to society in such a way?”. It wants to make and sell games. I may not like the type of game, or the content (wich i really personally don’t), but that doesn’t mean:

  1. that i can impose my likes or dislikes based on unfortunate ocurrences
  2. that the content of the game is a direct cause of some mentally ill act.

So as long as it plays by the legal rules, its BS even thinking of sueing. U’d have to sue a million of other things first.


#181

walshbem, let me start off by saying that you do have a good point. Everything a person experiences will mold that person, but are you trying to say that people have no control of their own actions? Do you honestly think that a violent video game will “influence” somebody to committ murder? Because this kid was sooo entertained by something fake he decided to try it in real life. that kinda sounds like this kid would’ve gotten off on twisted things before video games. i feel that each person attracts their own environment. if i thought sex was the best thing in the world, would i try desperately to get some? Or, if i thought that baseball was the best thing in the world, what would you find me doing? How about turning this around a bit…i thought that God was the only form of life i should follow. will you find me in church every sunday? now let’s look at it from a different angle. if my parents told me that God was the answer. what would i do?..i don’t think that you would be able to answer that, would you? because you would have to ask me what kind of person i was. of course…if i were very young…i could be influenced by my parents…and would you say that something that exists in a game would convince me better than the actions my parents take? I’m very sorry for the long post.


#182

gawd, I’m starting to wish this topic would end… :banghead: :banghead:

solarundies: I was refuting the comments of some of the other posters of this thread who assume that media has no impact at all, and that was just too arrogant for me to even consider valid. The levels that it can affect the person depend upon the state-of-mind at the time, but to say it has no impact at all is just ludicrous. :argh:


#183

christ, another angry parent trying to shift the weight to someone other than themselves…

  1. Parents need to make sure their kids arent doing what they dont want them to do. My parents know everything i play because they ASK god damnit.

mom: “What did you buy today?”
me: “UT2004. a shooter game for the computer.”
mom: “looks violent. why do you play this?”
me: “well you watch shows on spending money to make your house, yard, and self look better even though it has no real point or gain. why do you watch them?”
mom: “i enjoy them, and i think its important.”
me: “same here.”

she KNOWS i play violent games, sometimes all day. but her idea of violence is rather broad, she cant watch the LOTR movies because “the orcs are ugly and evil…nasty…they are violent…”. but thats her opinion, and she DOESNT question mine. if she wanted she could have sealed me off a LONG time ago from the violent world and my life would be similar to the hell i see some kids living in (they dont know anything the rest of us talk about or do, its like they HAVE been living under a protective rock). but she lets me do my thing, cuz i know whats right and wrong. dont overly censor your kids for christs sake, they are gonna grow up to be REALLY screwed. knowing nothing about what the rest of the world knows all about…coudl YOU stand living like that? keeping them from ALL violent games is not the question. keeping them from THE MOST VIOLENT is better, since they are…well…just over-doing it. and shielding your kids and not giving them a reason they can UNDERSTAND will just result in retaliation. my mom kept me from horror movies since she thought they were wrong and would affect me. i kept wanting to see them for the longest time and when i did…i still cant watch horror movies without jumping or getting paranoid. i have the opinion that most of them are too dumb or pointless (thanx mom!) after being told this for so long. i watched the first jason last year after is had been out for so long…it scared the crap outa me. but my friend, who owns about 50 horror titles, couldnt understand why i was freakin out cuz he had been watching them his whole life. he is COMPLETELY immune to being scared. so now i have to watch all the horror i can to get over my paranoidness. not just for the movies, but for everything else as well. i jump very badly when someone sneaks up on me or i see a sudden movement. if ur kids wanna watch a few horror movies let them for crying out loud! at best they will have a nightmare, then next time it will just be fun. im getting into the mood where i start to laugh when stuff happens.

parents: moderate your kids so they just take in a little bit of everythng, but more and more of what you want them to intake. but if they wanna go in a different direction: CONSIDER IT! if its really bad then explain to them thoroughly why its not a good idea. dont tell them “NO! your not doing that and thats FINAL!” cuz then they will do it anyway to see why you dont want them to and get u pissed in the process. kids deserve to learn on their own. they arent friggin pets.

  1. companys are not responsible for the content in games. the game is what THEY want it to be, not the consumers.after all, they are making the game in the vision they see it. its their own project and how it turns out is how they want it, not us. what the consumers want in the game that they add only helps it sell better. but usually the consumers make it, in this case, more violent. if the game as a mature rating or even the teen rating its the consumers responsibility. the stores now have to regulate that the people who buy the game are old enough, NOT the developers. complain to the stores. mabey they need to do what they do with porn magazines: keep them INDEFFINETELY out of reach of smaller kids or where the store attendant has to get it for them back in storage. give it a special marker, requiring an id check of some sort. letting small kids walk out of the store with a mature rated game is PURELY the fault of the store. heres an example: i buy my stuff on a military base since i live in germany. they require an ID check on everything (EVERYTHING!) so they know only people who are supposed to buy stuff are and not a german that managed to get in through friends or something. when i buy games/music/movies/magazines/ice cream they look at my id. if the object im buying is for mature audiences they check my date of brith. if i am not old enough they refuse. and its not cuz they can tell im young, i look 20 (which they tell me). they even check the ids of OLD guys that are obviously 40-50 buying R-rated movies or worse. and if they dont got an id, but are 40-ish, wearing a military outfit and can even back up they are workin on the base, they will not sell to them. period. i think stores could benefit from this kind of system.

  2. i know friends might have “connections” and can get the game for their bud who cant buy it on their own. THIS IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. you CANNOT stop this unless you kno who the person is and stop them, or kepe your kid away from them. but if they are a good friend your kid will get resentful and may start to hate you, which you dont want. informing the other persons parents might be best. 2 adults can sort it out better than 2 kids. but afterwards EXPLAIN to the kid why its bad until they understand. and not that sullen “ok…” answer, that just means they think your paranoid and stupid. GET IT IN THEIR HEAD, but gently. i thought GTA was the greatest thing on the earth, so i got my friend to burn me a copy of it. fortunately my computer ran it great with most of the settings turned down so my mom could clearly see what was going on. she had problems with it of course, since she read about the game from whiny complainers like the mom this topic was started for. but i explained that i knew what it was and i knew i would never do anything like that, and she knew i wasnt crazy. all i really played the game for was its enourmous size and the sheer amount of stuff you could do.

  3. then i found EQ and RPG (the REAL rpgs, not friggin FF jesus…). GTA3 got old very fast then, even the fun of shooting triads and the suits was gone. EQ, morrowind, sacrifice, and starcraft were still plenty violent but had more interesting traits that lured me to them and kept me there. it took thinking, time, effort, and patience. GTA was kinda senseless ater i looked at it again. the only reason i play Vice City is because its got the old-kool style i dont usually see in many games. it was just fun for its setting, and didnt completely cater to the current trends during its release period. best of the series IMO, and the nest GTA is gonna suck terribly i think.

anyway she let me keep playing it. it got old, i saw how brainless it was after she kept coming in saying “why did you do that? did they deserve it? what gain do you get from doing this? is this FUN?” eventually it dawned on me the game was just crap. all you could do was drive around or kill. that was literally it. mabey the other games were all about fighting, but at least i had to use my BRAIN. and if i get defeated the consequences are far more serious. mabey not on a real-life scale but sure are worse than in GTA (not reall a loss losing your weapons for going ona mass genocide instead of being killed on sight).

if you let your kids play the game while also letting them play others, while questioning the purpose of it they may see that the game really isnt all they thought it was. introduce them to strategy games that still involve a little violence. humans like to solve and figure out things as much a violence if not more. if we didnt we would constantly wonder how do do stuff in different ways, or what would the effect be if we did something another way. we wouldnt have figured out that hitting something breaks it, and hitting it harder breaks it more, which later evolved into hitting a creature hurts it, hitting it harder kills it.

i watched my friend play manhunt, and i have to say it was pretty damn gruesome. but it at least went a step higher than GTA in making you think, as opposed to going in guns blazing and, even if you die, you can go back and do it again. in MH, if you die you DIE! and its actually hard. you are as weak as your opponent except you have a brain and they dont. it did push the limits of gore levels and violence commited by the player (poke guns eyes out, choek em with a bag and beat em senseless, shoot a guy in the head and all thats left is a big circle, even cutting dudes heads off and throwing them at the enemy!! holy cow!!). but consider the story and plot: your a criminal that was saved from execution. ok, mabey you can reform and be good again. now your trapped in a deserted city run by thugs, corrupt police, and everyone is out to get you. ok thats a bit more difficult… and you are directed by a snuff film director, with you as the star. well that sucks. what you have to do? kill everyone, make the film interesting. soon as your done your free. well crap, got no choice. so ready and ACTION!

i liked the story. it was newer than most violent games that had recently or even rpeviously been released. and with a plot like that you cant get non-violent. it was a snuf-film game and you got screwed over. your set in a abandoned town run by thugs and corrupt police, and the starkweather is the power figure in the settlement.

i would rant on how a ban of violent games would be an awful thing but im tired of writing this post right now. ill save that one for later.


#184

people that go out and kill people after playing a computer game are completely nuts to begin with… he is also 17, NOT OLD ENOUGH TO LEGALLY BUY THE GAME… his parents should of stopped him

exactly!..

The cases:

Against RS:

Creation of a game that cause brutal violence ans suffering, a danger to society.

Against parents:

The game was clearly stated an 18C, and you the parents allowed him to play it even though he was seventeen.

Defence parents:

We didnt know a game could prevoke acts of violence in our son.

Defence RS:

18c is clearly stated, and our EUA applies the fact that no one under the age is not allowed to play it. It is up to the seller and the parents to enforce this.

The parents dont have a leg to stand on, if the son was 18 or 20 then Rockstar would be stuffed. But they’ll be squished, also with the backing of Sony -(Due to there sale and release onto PS2) will able to throw milllions to fight their case and even sue the parents

An article recently in New Scientist, found that the media (in which we absorb an average of 26,000 adverts a day, in the form of sound, image and movies into our brain) can have a affect on children and teenagers, the later being the most important.

Now this just backs RS case, the kid was 17 hes parent allowed him to play even though new scientist had release an article clearly on the topic i.e its been put in the public mindset.

HOooAHH!

eek


#185

this whole 18 year old thing is crap.

the guy was 17? so basically if he had played it a few months later he would have been ok to play the game? thats total BS. the only defence a kid could have is “I didnt know killing was a bad thing” and thats when their about 4 or 5. at 17 your an adult you should be able to know between right and wrong.

a 17 year old killing someone is not a child missguided by evil video games (Damn you video games!!!) he is like all the other killers out there

I have been playing violent video games as long as I can remember. I am 17 now and played mortal combat when it came out, the original doom, doom 2, Unreal tournament, and numerous others.

more often than not video games stop murders. consider this:

person A gets mad at person B. person A feals like killing person B. person A goes to play Unreal tournament 2004. person A uses emotion of anger to become best of the map (person A is happy and totally forgot about person B.


#186

oh yeah that to, forgot about that “killing is bad thingy!”.

eek


#187

walshbem, i’m sorry. i understand that forms of entertainment will affect each person differently. and…i guess i kinda went off on some wild tangent, but that’s what i was trying to say.

<To all>
Each person is affected differently, and my question is, “if each person is affected differently by this stimuli, then why are some blaming it solely on the game?”…this WILL be my last post to this thread…not because i fear being proven wrong, but because this is a topic that can go on forever. I hope that we all realize that this is just beating a dead horse (or however that saying goes). i also hope that there are no hard feelings between members in this great site. i personally will hold no grudges.:slight_smile:


#188

workin in blockbusters ive jus had to sign some paper stating that i am not allowed to express my own opinion or view to any form of outside media about the whole manhunt issue…


#189

my point exactly. if people are affected differently and one person snaps and kills people after playing a game then their brain is the problem not the game.

and since every is affected diferently why put everybody in the same category. you can’t say “kids” are affected in this way. and you cant just say no one can play this game.


#190


#191

And heres the twist.

http://www.mcvuk.com/html/news/story.jsp?newsId=1928139


#192

blame before the whole story is known…mabey the mother is even covering up info that could utterly crush her prosecution.

and, looking back at that post i made, GOD DAMN but its long…


#193

“As for the link between Manhunt and the crime, the police are clear. Pooni said: “We haven’t connected the game with the murder and we’ve already made that statement, but some sections of the media chose to ignore it
the motive was robbery”

"…Whilst we cannot comment on behalf of the publisher of the game in question, the procedures that it adopted were entirely responsible and in line with legal and industry codes of practice.”
Tsc tsc … these damn stupid and irresponsible cops … where would we be if not the well-informed media? :rolleyes:


#194

I am in awe of your mad ranting skillz… :bowdown: