Looking for reliable alternative to A:M

#12

Ok, thanks Wegg, good advice. I don’t have much faith in Hash support, I seem to have a lot of problems they can’t reproduce, but I have learned a bit from the forum today that has helped. And I don’t animate in the kitchen, way too noisy with 2 kids running around. I work inthe basement where it is cool and quiet. :thumbsup:

#13

Well in AM you just create a new hand action for your model. . . drop it onto your model in the cho and position it where you would like the hand wave to happen and maybe animate the influence it has over the motion “below” it. If it doesn’t look quite right you can always pop back over to the action and tweak it a little. Pop back to Cho and see what that did. Done.

Wowa. If your having troubles with Animation Master’s Non Liniar editing. . . DO NOT SWITCH APPS! Most other apps don’t even come close to AM in that area. I used to use action blending all the time in 8.5 and it worked very predictably.
Billy, THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH for the KIND words.

You the MAN!!

And Graham,

If there is anything that I can help you with, please don’t hesitate to ask.

A:M Rocks,
Greg Rostami

#14

I agree, blender is coming along nicely ! I don’t want to offend anybody here in this A:M forum but there are some nice samples to evaluate the current quality blender is capable of.Most users of other packages thinks that because blender is free it must be crappy and thats totally false ! It’s very stable, comes with NLA support, has nice fur and YafRay kicks ass !

Some Animations :


http://members.lycos.co.uk/blenderaki/Zasz_180.exe


http://members.lycos.co.uk/blenderaki/final_Face_c.avi


http://members.lycos.co.uk/blenderaki/Head.exe


http://members.lycos.co.uk/blenderaki/final_Dart_c.avi


http://www.blender3d.org/_media/gallery/movies/mindfields_low_osx.avi

Or watch the awesome SIGGRAPH Demo
http://blender3d.com/%7Ebart/siggraph_movie.avi

Some Stills :



Here the newest versions (2.34) :

98/ME/2000/XP
http://download.blender.org/release/Blender2.34/blender-2.34-windows.exe
http://download.blender.org/release/yafray.0.0.7/yafray-0.0.6-7-win.zip

Mac OS X 10.2
http://download.blender.org/release/Blender2.34/blender-2.34-OSX-10.2-powerpc.dmg
http://download.blender.org/release/yafray.0.0.7/yafray-0.0.7.pkg.zip

Mac OS X 10.3
http://download.blender.org/release/Blender2.34/blender-2.34-OSX-10.3-powerpc.dmg
http://download.blender.org/release/yafray.0.0.7/yafray-0.0.7.pkg.zip

Linux i386 2.2.5
http://download.blender.org/release/Blender2.34/blender-2.34-linux-glibc2.2.5-i386.tar.gz
http://download.blender.org/release/yafray.0.0.7/yafray-0.0.7-2.i386.rpm

Documentation
http://download.blender.org/documentation/BlenderManualIen.23.pdf.zip ([size=3]a must have !!!)[/size]
http://download.blender.org/release/Publisher2.25/PublisherUserDoc.pdf

Some blender files to play with
http://download.blender.org/demo/test/test234.zip (feature samples)
http://download.blender.org/release/yafray.0.0.7/test007.zip (YafRay samples)
http://blenderchar.weirdhat.com/models/blendo.zip (rigged character)

and don’t forget to visit this sites :
www.blender.org
http://blenderchar.weirdhat.com/
http://www.enricovalenza.com/
http://members.lycos.co.uk/blenderaki
http://www.artificial3d.com/
http://www.blenderwars.com

Bertha (a blender & A:M user)

#15

I thought I’d post s followup. I figured out what the problem was. I spent a half hour recording what I was doing when A:M crashed. It crashed 6 times. With a little deductive reasoning and intuative guessing, I figured out that a model that had it’s draw mode set to “not show” in the PWS was the problem. Once I set it to show, all has been fine now for several hours. Testing my hypothisis with another model confirmed this.

Now I’m happy to be able to work in A:M again, but I’m shaking my head at how such a simple thing can bring the app down. Unfortunatly, this is very typical of A:M. BTW Dearmad, I am using 10.5.

Thanks to all for the support and suggestions, and thanks to Bertha Big for posting the Blender stuff, very cool. Even IF A:M keeps working, I want to give Blender a try to see how to model in polys.

#16

If you can repeate that. . . zip that puppy up and send it to support@hash.com. Please.

#17

Graham, glad i could help ! I also use A:M (11.0m) but i seem to have the talent for crashing it every 10 minutes or so. I hardly get anything done. This was the main reason for me to look into Blender. At first i was totally lost by the strange UI but i gave it a few days of serious work and now i really start loving it. Don’t expect a workflow like in A:M (the only reason i didn’t returned A:M to Crash Inc.) but the results are quite rewarding ! The Yafray Renderer is great ! It has awesome quality and speed. There will be a new Blender Release 2.34 in the next days with a lot of new features. Beginners should take their time to get used to the ‘funny’ interface and search for samples and docs. I also use Wings 3D and both programs work perfectly together. I still hope that Hash will work on stability and render speed because A:M is really fun to use !

There is a nice (fully rigged) character to play with :

http://blenderchar.weirdhat.com/models/blendo.zip

and visit the character animation site

http://blenderchar.weirdhat.com/

Bertha

#18

Graham said that he was using version 10.5. I am as well.

Will Hash inc. even look at bug and crash reports form 10.5 now that they have moved to 11?

If they don’t why bother to send in the report?

Anyway…

I was going to give up A:M long ago because I am a bit fed up with it crashing as it does but…

I have yet to figure out how to model with polygons.

I have found it quite a challenge to adjust to polygons.

I even own a copy of MAX and I can’t even get past it’s user interface yet.

It’s frustrating too because right here at CgTalk I see so many great models that were created with polygons and many of them with MAX.

I think to myself: How do these artists create these models from boxes??? Its amazing to me. I think I’ll figure it out soon enough though.

I think that A:M is a WONDERFUL program and I still use it a lot but it still does crash way too much (especially during modeling).

Hash really still needs to zero in on and fix those (now legendary) crashing issues.

#19

The “I love it . . . but” attitude is pretty common among users of any software.

I love After Effects BUT. . . I HATE it’s animation controls. It’s motion curves are the most un-intuative pile of poo I have ever had to deal with. I ALWAYS run up against it and always have to come back to it because there is nothing else out there that produces cleaner/faster results that I have found.

I love Messiah BUT. . . I HATE it’s workflow and goofy method of applying “tools” and “modifiers” etc.

I love Lightwave BUT. . . I hate it’s interface, it’s material editor, it’s modeler. . . hmm. . . maybe I don’t love lightwave.

I think the point is. . . A:M is not unique in it’s quirks. I think most users in here are here because they believe A:M is the diamond in the rough. . . and that it’s quirks are worth putting up with for it’s other attributes.

Hang in there. Develop a relationship with the support people at Hash. . . and let us help you when we can.

#20

You should visit www.3dbuzz.comThey have free (video) tutorials for beginners. Also check Michael Comet’s Web site (http://www.comet-cartoons.com) He has a lot of 3DSMax Tutorials & Scripts.

I found this great box modeling tutorial a while ago :

http://www.maxoncomputer.com/tutorial_detail.asp?tutorialID=142&site=

http://www.maxoncomputer.com/tutorial_browse.asp?category=PROJECTS

They use Cinema 4D in this tutorial but you should be able to apply it to every other package as well.

I’m not a techno geek. I can’t recreate the steps before the crashs occur. Most of the time i simply use UNDO or do a Quickrender and KABOOM ! They don’t even bother to test the weekly patches with the project files from the CD ! (remember the particle samples or rigid bodys a few releases ago ?). And what about the cloth feature ? I never got it to work without crashing. And still i won’t give up on Hash ! (at least until the end of this year :wink: ) but you can’t blame someone to look for alternatives !

Bertha

#21

No I can’t. I use other software all the time. Wings3D is my baby. But I can’t take your suggestions to other packages over A:M seriously because I can see that you are not an animator.

The name on the box. “Animation Master”.

Its not “Model Master”

“Cloth Master”

"Particle collision working every release Master. . . "

If Graham Clark was trying to do flying logo’s for his church. . . or get a job as a poly-modeler. . . AM wouldn’t be for him and I’d honestly suggest he go elsewhere.

But he is trying to tell stories on his own with characters.

There isn’t a better tool out there for that. Period.

#22

I was asking before if Hash only investigates bug and crash reports for only its latest version.

Do they?

Because if they only support the latest version then me developing a relationship with the developers won’t amount to anything. It would be a waste of thier time and mine since I am using 10.5. There is no relationship to be had until I upgrade.

Maybe so but catagorize a legitimate gripe as an “I love it but…” attitiude is not looking at that situation as it really is.

Yes, I read through alot of the forums here of software I do not own and I do see that the grass is not really greener on the other side and I dabble with MAX enough to say A:M is the way I’d prefer to go… even with A:M’s issues.

But that does not mean that I should lower my expectations of A:M as I fight the fight and hang in there awaiting for it to stabilze.

No way.

I think that the best thing I can do right now is to keep working with it as I am now. I won’t be upgrading though until I know its much more stable.

I agree with the notion that A:M is a diamond in the rough. As I said before it is a wonderful program (maybe even brilliant). It is a really well thought out software package.

But right now this diamond that we call A:M needs a bit of polishing. And it needs polishing in some critical areas.

Personally, I really don’t mind minor buggieness as long as it does not prevent me from working. I don’t even mind the occasional crash or two. Constant crashing is another issue though and that’s really the ONLY thing that I don’t like about A:M.

I wish that I had the time and dedication to sit at my computer with a pen and paper to notate exactly what I did my A:M crashed and be able to repeat the process to see if its a repeatable phenomenon but I don’t.

Right now, I am using version 10.5 and I just work through the crashes. They are still bearly bearable for now. But these crashes have lingered around so many years now I really wonder if stability is an acknowleged priorty within the walls of Hash Inc.

Wegg, I’m all for doing what I can to help make A:M a better product than it is but aside from bug reports I am not sure what a user like me really can do to help.

Do you have any thoughts about that that you care to share?

Bertha, thank you for the links.

#23

Well you should upgrade for a start. Hash Inc. would be crazy to try and support lots of different branches of it’s software. I’m using 11 right now and I have only crashed twice today. Been using it all day. I’d say thats pretty damn stable.

Other than that . . . keep posting crash reports. “It crashed when I did this”. If they ask for the .prj and you have time great. I agree that it SUCKS to have to be a beta testor to software you paid for but. . . that will never change.

#24

I second that. I’ve been sending bug reports into Hash for the last few months for v11 and I’ve been sending less and less recently. You should also specify what problems your having on as many forums as possible to get the most people helping you.
But honestly, coming from a formerly bald v9 user :smiley: , I can’t fault the latest version. Oh and it’s only $99 to upgrade still. :slight_smile:

BTW you were having trouble making the timeline “stick” in the chor…you have to alter the size of the “blue bar” to do it.

#25

Your right about that, but i still want to be able to use all the features that they advertise on their web site !

You mean to spend another $99 to get support for the product you couldn’t use in the first place ? I don’t think so ! It’s not just the money but also the time you have to spend. Will you continue to use your newly bought v11 for production work after you have completed the job for Hash ??

Bertha

#26

I don’t understand what is stopping you. The box says “Feature”. Not “Perfect stable feature that could never be improved upon in a later version”.

I always try and find ways of using it. Some features of AM rule. Some suck. Try flocking for instance. It is pretty close to useless.

If you look on my company’s demo reel. That Gorilla was modeled in AM. . . then imported into LW. Same with the big ole logo. The Distortion Mode in AM’s modeler is a feature you just can’t find anywhere else! (That may be due to pattent issues btw. . .) Whenever I have to do text I almost always start in AM. It produces freaky clean mesh that beats all other options and exports/imports very well.

A:M is a tool dude. Not a religion. You don’t have to go believing it is perfect. Use it if you want. . . don’t if you don’t. Just don’t expect a software developer to support older versions of it’s software. Thats just silly.

#27

This thread has been interesting. SInce I started it, I have become more hopefull that A:M is the best app for me to be using. This is good because I have invested a lot of time in figuring it out, and I have a longway to go yet. The idea of starting over depressed me.

Now that I know what was cauing the crashing, A:M only dissapears about once a day. This is a huge improvement. I hope it stays this way. BTW, I did send the project and my conclusions to support, and have heard nothing, as usual. I guess they want us to be using, testing, the new version. Now that 10.5 appears stable, I am considering upgrading. I just don’t want to go through this all over again.

Wegg, I’m curious about why you like to work in so many different apps. I know they are tools to get the job done, but what is it you like about A:M, Lightwave, Messiah, etc. I gather you like modelling in A:M, but you’ve also mentioned Wings. You guys must have an interesting work flow. :rolleyes: Maybe you could give us an example of a typical, if there is one, project workflow.

#28

BTW, I did send the project and my conclusions to support, and have heard nothing, as usual.

You do know that SIGRAPH is this week. I’m pretty sure most if not all of the HASH crew are attending so perhaps you will get a reply of some sort after they get back .

#29

Moved over to the other thread

#30

It got moved. And your reply sort of illustrates how Wegg is jumping past people here in that the animatic (using quick renders) might be a better first step to go to. People aren’t considering that step. It’ll save you lots of time. Of course anyone will know to “render wqhen done,” the trick is knowing when you’re really “done.”
:smiley:

#31

This has been an interesting thread. All I can say is if you do decide to get another app I would check out C4D and Messiah but wait till after siggy to see what everyone comes out with there. If Maxon sticks to its normal way of doing things in the last few years version 9 should be kick butt. I love C4D’s work flow and it is the closest thing I have found that matches AM’s work flow. I also think that Messiah is a fantastic app for animation I dont do as much as Wegg does with it for animating so I dont use every tool messiah has yet but then again I never use AM’s animation tools as much as Wegg did/does. If you look at Joe Cosmans tuts for messiah you willsee how easy it is to rig and animate with, you can also go to there web site and look at some of the videos they have as see some of the tools they have.

C4D’s modeling tools and materials really do kick butt. For the folks that seem to have problems modeling with polys its pretty easy to get the hang of poly modeling once you start thinking about it correct. Also with C4D you can model pretty much like you do in AM, well if you model in AM by extruding then you will be able to do that with polys.