List your rendering tutorial wishes...

#21

I would like to see a more hands on tutorials where you do it yourself rather then just a show how to if that makes any sense like Joe Cosman’s…

#22

I agree with you here.
The only problem I have with experimenting the renderpart is that it feels a bit buggy and unstable.
E.g. I´ve played with the translucency settings and after testing the different options (example surface thickness), it often crashes.
Other renderer I´ve tried are far more stable than Messiah actually is. Not necessarily better, but stability is one of most, if not THE most important ‘feature’ for me when playing or exploring the render part. I sometimes have the feeling that it´s better not to play with it too much.
If I have no clue what I´m doing and don´t know about the crash prone parts and situations, I´m just not motivated enough toying with the render part.
Call it crashphobia that prevents me from experimenting :sad:

#23

Huh? Hmmm…could have been that the old translucency was buggy, that’s why I wrote the basicShader back then, but we COMPLETELY reworked the NEW TRANSLUCENCY! It’s absolutely great now. Not only does it work just like the basicShader (once it’s set to a mode called “UniLimit”), but it also works just fine with all lighting types and softshadows and such, which used to be a challenge for the basicShader (and still is!). But it’s practically all you need now and I havn’t had a SINGLE crash with it, while testing it a lot with all sorts of different circumstances! Also we’ve added a whole bunch of things to the ordinary material. Reflections and Transparency are now parametrically tintable as well and the specularity/glossiness solution is brand new and interacts with the size of the light, just like the diffuse shading now, too! So even direct lights can have a size and the diffuse shading as well as the highlights respond accordingly! Glossiness also diffuses the specular highlight naturally so that you don’t have to adjust specularity levels and glossiness levels at the same time to obtain a natural look! It’s by now a whole lot easier to get great looking surfaces right away! Translucency also has now a tinting color and of course everything is texturable! It’s a real blast working with it so far! Hmmm…hmmm…hmmm…I might post some examples later…need to do some more work and then… we’ll see! :wip:

#24

I would have to disagree about experimenting with the render, I remember when I did the shalien back in the summer time i had one night to futz around with it. I only had one night to learn it. I would attach nodes and do a test render, move the lighting around. Mess with the settings etc.

It never crashed, I just didn’t know what all the funny names for the parameters meant as the documentation wasn’t up to date. Yet when I read the neckling post you covered a great deal about the basic shader, but I have to admit it was a little confusing looking at the names and relating them back to what they actually did.

My suggestion to Lyle and to you, a solution that would be similar to the tool tips in Zbrush. Where as you write/create that aspect of messiah create a little popup that describes what the specific function does. It would trigger with a shift and LMB click. I know you are probably going to say just read the manual or experiment.

As far as I am concerned using messiah is a pleasure and continues to be.

#25

<Taron> …once you’ve taken the basic ideas in.

I think this is what I’d like to see in the tutorials.
Go right through the very basics of how messiah works, how it all connects together bit by bit, with ‘simple’ examples. Like you said once people know the basics, the advanced stuff they can discover themselves or learn from others.

That may sound ‘obvious’ but there is no point having and advanced SSS tutorial on a displaced Z-brushed head with dolls eys morph targets and muscle bones with expressions and particle snot, if you don’t know the basics of it all that first.

#26

I agree completely.

Also, experimentation is a luxury for hobbyists. I want to do some tutorials and hit the ground running with a minimum of messing about in a production environment.

#27

So, so, so …almost there… I know of only one thing that needs another tweak before release, but so far we’re pretty much done! It’s working absolutely great and more age-old issues are solved and gone…so pleasant! Finally for all the waiting here’s a little quick rendertest. Just made a little guy under the usual hardcore parameters (192 polygons for what you’re looking at) and tested out most of the texturing on that one…basically just hooking a bunch of nodes to as many inputs as reasonable for the looks…haha…

Canvasili_translucent.jpg640x640

The depth of field is done using the depth buffer and running it through www.frischluft.com’s “Lenscare” - Depth of Field afterFX plugin. .

It’s really just a simple test, but I like some of the feel of the exaggerated translucency and it also shows the softshadow interaction quite nicely. It’s just a tiny little something to look at, but hey…it’s our new standart material and nothing else but that! Except texturemaps and one gradient_fresnel there’s no other shader in the flow! :smiley:

The tutorials will show a lot more how the new glossiness and specularity work and feel, too!

#28

wow! , new pants please

#29

:scream::thumbsup: Unbelievable! Wonderful…

I can´t say anything… just that I really look forward to learning from your video(s) about the way you set your renders up…

Great news, that the release date is near :bounce:

Keep up your fantastic work, go PMG!

LX

#30

Wow !

Can’t wait :bounce:

#31

NEAR ! Did Taron say “NEAR”?!!

Well, he said “near” and that rhymes with “here”,
But it still means “wait” and that we “hate”,
Then again…
They never say “near” unless it’s practically “here”…

Enthusiastically,
Rick

#32

Taron is a big Tease!:scream:

#33

Taron,

What was the rendering time on that? Looks sweet! Not sweet like in candy. Kind of reminds me of a Navy buddy of mine who developed a bad case of an ellergic reaction to some shellfish.

Bill is that you…

Taron would it be possible for you to post an image of the “before model” and the texture map!

Scratch that if its going to cause a delay in the release at all. Get to work!

#34

Hmmm…Bill…sorry to hear about your condition, really! :argh:

Hey, THANX, everyone! I’m really glad you like it…I might just put some eyes into him, hahaha! Nah…I’ll make some new stuff for the tutorials then…

Anyway, here’s a new render for the timing…didn’t remember how long the old render took. This one took 7minutes and 3 seconds on the 2Ghz dual Opteron that I have sitting here.

Canvasili_translucent_7m03s.jpg640x640

Here’s a look at the geometry:

Canvasili_geometry.jpg640x640

I’m checking the release right now! If everything’s fine, the setup files are ready! :smiley:

#35

Any fixes with the ATI issues?

#36

Taron,

Not bad rendering times at all!!!

I’m really curoius about your workflow for some thing like that? That geometry is so simple!!!
Since Messiah doesn’t have a paint engine, how do you go about producing something like that? It would seem that you would need a Fprime type previewer in Messiah that would have a “live” connection to Photoshop or something. Do you use any other package for the displacement/texture mapping?

I’m checking the release right now! If everything’s fine, the setup files are ready! :D[/QUOTE]

Do you mean… like… tonight…? Messiah…? or A training / new features video?

#37

tonite?! :eek:

afaik ZBrush for the displacement/texture mapping.

#38

Wow, it’s very surprising to get such a question again after such a long and strong success of Zbrush! Yes, I’ve used Zbrush to create the displacement map AND the color and specularity map, which I also used a bit to control the translucency and the fresnel.

Switching resolutions for the render is very easy and handy and occasionally I do that for quick previews. I also like rendering to the viewport, where I can zoom up lowres renders or play with the limited region to focus on specific areas. They of course always work, viewport or window, but it’s just fun and great to move the limited region around in the viewport and just render it…feels just great. :slight_smile:

The release should be there now…or if not right now then most likely just in a few hours…I tested it and it appears to be just fine, sooooo…it’ll be there! :scream:

#39

Taron,

What will be there? And Where? The new release of Messiah… ?

Thanks for explaining the Zbrush thing to me. I’ve been stuck in a dungeon doing military/defense animation for the last 5 years. I’m now just trying to get back into something a little more creative. I’m just dying to get back into something alittle more fun and less dry. So I just recently have been checking up on Messiah and haven’t done so since my purchase after Siggraph 2001. After being semi proficent in Maya I could really never jump into Messiah. I could never get wrap my head around the edit sphere, Menu level IK setup, and the perspective window not being the default camera.

From what I last remembered a guy named Fred and Lyle were the force behind Messiah, are they still around?

Is there a place to check out your workflow I would love to see more of it? Is there other progams out there that does that type of displacement effect textures?

Thanks in advance :slight_smile:

#40

Questions over questions…haha! YES, I’m talking about the messiah release, which should be up sometime today! At least it is ready to roll and now it’s just a matter of posting it!

My tutorials will reveal a part of my workflow, at least the part inside of messiah. My entire workflow goes like this in brief:

  1. Modelling of a lowres metanurb cage (previewed smooth subdivision) in Lightwave3d
  2. Making UVmap in Lightwave, too!
  3. Zbrushing the heck out of it…really giving the model it’s actual shape with details as well.
  4. Exporting new/modified lowres cage out of Zbrush
  5. Creating and exporting displacement maps and other maps…in and out of Zbrush
  6. Getting everything into messiah, making bone setups, making textures, rendering…
  7. After effects or photoshop sometimes for final touches.

That’s it! :slight_smile: