Lets discuss the topic for the next mini challenge....

#92

Noooooo! (I want to do Christopher Lee :-))

and you will find much better footage from the newer ones, cause TV of the 80’s has very bad resolution!

#93

i agree keep it open more fun that way, i was hoping to do order 66

#94

very ambitious!! How many Jedis are you planning to involve?

#95

i’m personnally gonna sit this one out… I have a personal project that I want to do in the mean time… though I was thinking of makeing a model of vader but I am hoping to be done for the next challenge…

#96

TKman: just the one, against a handfull of clone troopers, clone troopers should be easy cos once youve got one you can just copy, paste and repose

#97

Andre Firebert I don’t really agree about restricting votes within challengers. I don’t know how much weight my opinion has since I never participate, but for me, I see these challenges as great inspirations and would really love to have a part in it, even if it’s just the voting at the end. After all, it’s community based activities.

I think if you want to be fair, you could select judges and seperate prizes into 2 catagories. Judges’ vote, and public vote. That way you can have your trustworthy group of people to vote based on pure modeling that you want. And the artist can still use all their repertoires to bring the model further for public vote.

About shading… Personally I think it’s all good. If the model isn’t accurate in the first place, textures are not going to help.
If you want people to purely model in every bump details and not do it via texture, might as well call this a Zbrush/mudbox Challenge instead.

#98

uh… DVD’s? lol

as far as subjects for modelling go does anyone else like the idea of just having the statement be something like

“Choose a classic scene from the Star Wars films and reinterpret it into a 3d diorama, or think up your own scene and do the same”

I think by opening that up you’ll find alot more creativity is generated and the option of creating your own could have possibilities like-

  • death of jar jar
  • yoda vs vader
  • vader vs the emperor
  • stormtroopers playing poker…

i think that’d be a great idea

#99

Love the subject for this one.Mmmmm!

#100

That’s completely wrong.
Misu’s Maximus is an excellent example of that.
The naked grey model is not very good, and wouldn’t have got any votes at all, but the final textured, shaded well lit image with hair plugins etc, actually won the contest.
Thus, this winner would have been better suited to the rendering challenge forum, because that’s why it won, not on the strength of the modeling.
Is anyone beginning to see my point?

#101

Penguin, sounds like that could work. As I said, doing just a panel takes away from the community aspect and I wouldn’t want to see that happen. But some voting system should be dialed in. If it did come down to gathering a dedicated panel to “assist” with voting, Oddity should be on it. He just made a very good point. The forum should maintain a strong sense of modeling dedication. A beauty render should not determine who wins the challenge. However, it should also not disqualify you from entering, nor should it be discarded in judging. Now enough about this argument. sheesh.

TKMan, I don’t know what you’re complaining about resolution for. They’ve spit polished everyone 3,469,343,990 times now. Turn in those Fox Home Video VHS tapes and buy the DVDs. Besides, what do you need it to be high res for anyway?

#102

I like the way you think…

Ill post the challenge in the next few days…

BTW Just an FYI for those who have textures, THE NEXT ONE Animals in Motion will be without textures.

#103

I’m really tempted to throw my hat in this ring.

First, 2 points:

For the animals in motion, if you remove things like hair from the rules what are you left with? Have you ever seen a cat or a dog without hair. (Shudder) Creepy looking things. You probably mean the general shape of the animal minus hair shaders, just want to clarify. But really, this seems like a bad challenge to not include things like hair. IDK, it’ll probably work I just need to wrap my head around it.

For the Star Wars challenge, do we have to go super movie accurate like the last challenge or can it be left to interpretation. I ask because I’ve had an idea in my head for redesigning a certain Star Wars character that is despised by all, despised because of the design, not the character itself. I’d like to coolify it if you will. That would be super groovy of you bro, if not that’s cool, I’ll have to keep thinking. :smiley:

#104

In my mind when I think of modelling I really think of the whole package. Model, texture, hair etc. I never separate these things because I’m trying to bring a completed concept to life. I realize that most operations separate the different jobs, but this is not that structured of an environment, we should stay as fluid as possible. It’s all about leaving your confort zone. A few have mentioned that they model and they came here to model so lets just model. C’mon guys, lets push ourselves to reach beyond what is easy personally and do something “challenging.” Hence the point of a challenge. Now this is just me, I believe there’s enough flexibility to eventually accomodate everyone.

I wasn’t there at the beginning of this forum but hearing that it was David, a statue, makes me think that some of you thought they would all be like that and clearly that was not Roberto’s intension. David was simply a starting point from which to grow.

Now, last time I checked there are no prizes for this challenge. No one is putting up money for it, so there really is no reason to nail down the entire future of the forum. Keep it fun should always be the mantra around here. The winner gets a good slap on the back and everyone congratulates everyone else and we move on to the next challenge. Some of the seriousness in these arguements remind me of a pick-up game of basketball when the ball goes out. People will argue for 5 min. about it when really we just want to play. I’m not disregarding anyones arguements here as they are all valid, but not every challenge is going to be to your likeing. Roll with it and soon your cup-o-tea will come around.

As for cutting off the rest of the CGS community, I’m pretty sure those that participate enjoy showing off their work to the whole site, not just the few that sign up. A better idea is for Roberto to not count an entry and display it until the participant meets the guildlines for that challenge. Ultimately he is the one that presents the entries.

I think I may have a solution for everyone. You SHOULD rename the forum. Instead of the “Hardcore Modeling Challenge” call it “Roberto Ortiz’s Hardcore Challenge.” Let’s face it, Roberto is something of a celebrity around here now and I think his name would bring the folks in. :smiley:

Ah whatever, lets do this.

#105

oDDity. I generally find your position strong… but this time I agree wit you
I voted for MISU for Most Accurate Likeness and his rendered image is really beautiful but for me we have to put RULES.
Will be displacement considering cheat ?
If we want Hardcore MODELLING Challenge we should use only CLAY RENDERER.
Does someone remember the John Locke thread ?
What will happen if next competition I will make a plane and project a startfighter ? Will I win as most accurate likeness ? (I know that MISU didn’t do this but just a question to say "how much we can “push” on texture and displacement ?)
Someone also talk about two jury. for me it’s not necessary JUST PUT RULES. And make people respect them. Hardcore Modelling competition should be for MODELS not for lighting, texturing, rendering, etc… look at the gandalf model for example or at the other wonderful leonida. that is wonderful modelling… But I also understand the potin that zbrush ad mudbox really take advatages in a pure “clay” competition…

Since we have a kind of former dictator roberto should say what he thinks. I hope that he will judge wisely :wink:
Otherwise we can just rename the competition… we will have MINI CG CHALLENGE (for me it’s ok) but please don’t say HC modelling competition

#106

Please just don’t forget Boba Fett and Jango Fett.

#107

I agree with you. I would like to join a modeling challenge but I don’t like texturing. I’m going to participate in the next challenge but probably you’ll see just a clay render, I know it doesn’t look attractive but if this is a modeling challenge it should better be like this, i think :slight_smile:

#108

no one said that clay renders shouldnt be allowed, in fact the arguments are more about not forbiden someone to push futhre if he wishes. Lets face the fact, the objective of the challenges is to grow as an artist, and the focus is on modelling but this doesnt necessary means that you cant go the extra mile.
Just look at small miniatures, they all looks gorgeous as models in itself, but probably you wont see many that havent been painted.
Say that this is a hardcore modelling and it should be only modeling is over react, a bump map or displacement is extremly important to the modelling stage, just look at any gnomon videos of real sculture and you will see that the artist spend alot of times working on small details like pores and wrickles… i doubt everybdoy here has a machine that can work in a model with billion faces ( i sure dont hv one, accept donations though :stuck_out_tongue: ).
Basically, if you just want to model do it, the main objective is model but dont forbide someone to work even more on his model.
Andre

#109

I don’t think anyone was saying to not use displacements, bump or normal maps. I think that they are absolutely necessary for adding sculpted detail. The objection is that if you make texturing optional and say it shouldn’t influence voting, that you can’t make that guarantee.

We all know that if 2 equally good models are posted and one is textured and one isn’t that the textured one will receive more votes simply because it looks more finished to most amateurs. And amateurs do vote in the challenge.

If the option to texture is presented, then the pressure will be on to texture your model vs not to contend.

I hear what you are saying about the painted figurines. But what about all the great classical sculptures or even modern sculptures of figures not painted in a realistic way? I compare what this challenge is about with that - using modeling skills to sculpt the true form rather than using texture to give the illusion of form. That is what made the challenge so appealing in the first place.

Instead of a modeling challenge that pushes the texturing aspect, it’s a modeling challenge that pushes the modeling aspect.

#110

Well, basically the classical sculpures were painted, but the paint on them disapeared with time, and the renascence artists didnt know that and were influenced by the look the sculptures had in their time, but what this shows is that models without textures can be amazing peaces of art, and in some cases it can be even better than a painted one.
Just to hv a texture in the model doesnt mean it will be better than model B, if the texture sucks it can kill the model… i have seen alot of painted miniatures that the paint job totally kills the model, but in the hands of skilled artists it can push even futher the final model.
Just look to last challenge, misu model was absolutly beautifull, and i dont think it is just because it has a texture on it, the gray shaded model is very accurate, but if you say that his model was more voted because it had texture on it, i would disagree, i think he did what have to be done.
The real challenge in here is the voting process, its extremly hard to vote in this kind of contest when you have the liking influencing the final decision. If someone is mislead by the texture, it may aswell be mislead for the subject in itself, being totally honest i can imagine that next challenge will have a dozen boba feet ( for its a very iconic figure ) and it will be hard to hv it voted in equal conditions to a less apealing character from the movie.
In fact what really matters is what you learn from the contest, its a great place to get feedback from people that is extremly talented, and being this a modelling contest you will see good modelers in here, so the critiques will be very usefull for your modelling skills. I just think that someone just vote in their favourite images doesnt mean that they are participating at all. Evert time i read throug alot of votes just to find the ones that i consider valids, and is the ones from artists that has participated on the challenge, or had participated in the past.
The main focus of this challenges should be about modelling, and not about winning or losing doesnt really matter if the other artist has a textured model and you dont, what matters is what you learned and the quality of your work. The contest is just a way to gather people toward a comon goal, and thats why i dont think we should be too restrictive in the rules.
Well, i hope its possible to understand my point of view, and sorry to keep arguing about this thing over and over again.
Andre

#111

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