IP Incubator Club Thread 2013: Week-001: April 15-21- 2013

[CGIPadawan]

If we look at the success of Broken Age, Torment, or Project Eternity, there is clearly a want and a need for games that go back to what made those genres awesome in the first place.
I really don’t want STASIS to appeal to the casual gamer, ‘hidden object’ gamer, or PopCaps ‘Soccer Mom’ demographic, because Im making STASIS for myself-its the kind of game I wish other developers would make, so I could play it.

OK. You are correct also in saying that.

Just avoid the traps that made games like “Still-Life 2” utterly horrible and STASIS will be great in a classical way.

[Pyke]

I think most of your concerns are down to clever puzzle design. The Adventure Game genre actually has a lot of design rules in place to stop things like you’ve mentioned from happening. There is one called Walking Dead, where you can’t complete the game if you dont do something earlier on. There is another called 3 Rooms, where you shouldnt have to backtrack more than 3 rooms to complete an objective. Granted, these are guidelines that can be broken, bent, and ignored-but they are there.

[CGIPadawan]

I think most of your concerns are down to clever puzzle design. The Adventure Game genre actually has a lot of design rules in place to stop things like you’ve mentioned from happening. There is one called Walking Dead, where you can’t complete the game if you dont do something earlier on. There is another called 3 Rooms, where you shouldnt have to backtrack more than 3 rooms to complete an objective. Granted, these are guidelines that can be broken, bent, and ignored-but they are there.

It is clear your interest in this particular design of game exceeds mine. In a way, I’m kind of the prodigal son. I used to play ONLY these Adventure games… and then the 3rd person shooters came… the fighting games came…

The genre lost critical mass due to players like me discovering the “other ways games told their stories”.

A few really struck me hard enough to go back to them… like Broken Sword. And Syberia made me think a revival was happening. But Syberia actually starts to come apart at the end… and Syberia 2 was no longer fun to play.

Still-Life was even worse.

I will wait for more progress on STASIS… As I think someone who can “kick it old school PROPERLY” will still have the edge. Mistakes like the ones Still-Life 2 did are not down to using outdated design (the game would have failed to entertain even if the year was 1981).

[Frotze]

Usually, the fastest way to improve performance here is to remove some Render Settings, Separate Passes (which I assume you already do), and find some quirks of your chosen rendering engine (Ex: Blender Internal bogs down on Texture Channels, so baking textures together and reducing channels gains time).

Also if this is about Smoke or Explosions, remember that there are OTHER ways to do the same thing if you look at how Video Game engines and early CG VFX used Billboards or Cards to do them. This also saves time if you are waiting for a complex sim.

I sort of remember how a recent VFX film with a Flaming Tornado (“Harry Potter 5, 6, 7?”) used cards and a smaller scale fire sim to get the effect going. So basically if you do it properly… taking shortcuts like that help.

There is also a practical reason for shortening your render time. There is a logic that if you have capacity to re-render, you can improve a shot, whereas if you’re already “battered” from just waiting for the first go… you have no capacity left to fix it.

You may have more options available to you because the look you are going for is Hand Painted.

We pretty much render everything in separate passes and do the entire look in comp, so technically, every one of our pass isn’t very complicated and shouldn’t take long to render. We don’t use any complicated shaders, our textures are relatively small, and we always make sure to delete every piece of set we don’t see in the camera. Also, our FX are actually some of the fastest passes to render.

The slow renders in our case usually come from simply having the bridge in our scene. It’s made of hundreds, if not thousands of different pieces, and although every one of them is really simple and usually left unsmoothed, Mental Ray still has a hard time. We experience some kind of very long lag between rendering each frame where, from what I could understand, the engine has to transfer every single piece of geometry into something it can compute. We tried all kinds of solutions but haven’t found any so far…

I should also note that the current scene has thirteen characters and necessitate to have very diffuse shadows from multiple lights.

OK what I want to suggest here is a GAMEPLAY note I heard from a discussion behind the success of Telltale’s “WALKING DEAD” games in spite of the dated graphics and lack of association with the TV show or why it’s a hit even with people who don’t know Walking Dead.

One player noted that Telltale’s “puzzle solving” system is seamless in that it does away with backtracking too far and assembling MacGyver solutions to problems. Instead, you click on an object it goes into your inventory, and then if a situation calls for that object and you already have the object, you click your mouse over the situation and if you already have the item needed for it, you use it automatically.

I haven’t played WALKING DEAD, but I know something I wouldn’t like is feeling that the game is figuring out the puzzles for me, especially for the kind of old-school adventure game I feel Chris is going for. I’d rather have, let’s say, the main character say outloud that the keyhole on the door I clicked seems to be the same kind as the key I got in my pocket, and then use it myself, than automatically have the key in my hand when hovering over the door.

[lloydharveyart]

Oh man… this thread is going to grow very large very quickly I think. That will make it harder to both contribute, review and discuss the weekly updates from the IP producers. Could we not have a group on Facebook for this?

[RobertoOrtiz]

Oh man… this thread is going to grow very large very quickly I think. That will make it harder to both contribute, review and discuss the weekly updates from the IP producers. Could we not have a group on Facebook for this?

I want to keep it within the family.
And I have more control of the weekly threads here.

But you can link to your facebook page onthe WIP

[lloydharveyart]

I want to keep it within the family.
And I have more control of the weekly threads here.

Fair enough.

[mister3d]

In my opinion the “eye candy” will be when the evil henchmen go underwater in their specialized underwater swimming things (like in the COD MW3: Navy Seals Demo ) and there is this big underwater battle to decide things (see: Thunderball).

It really needs to be more explained, and perhaps shown. I wanted to keep it simple, so there will be as little fighting scenes as possible. I think I need to work on the animated storyboard and show it here, so it makes more sense.

I know for a fact the Cat will be special, but I think the audience will remember more the big action finale (I’m assuming the end will be underwater because you mentioned something about submerging and oxygen under doors).

That will be trouble enough. I know how hard it can be to take advice like this: “Lose the cat”.

The cat idea was how we could make the main hero making anything? Then we must substitute it with something else, but I wanted to make it a bit humorous. But I have to think if it can be changed, I will discuss it with the script writer.

Is the girl important though? I take it that the main plot twist is that his bosses sent him to essentially do janitor work for weapons they bought (That the boss stole them would probably be more direct and better for the short format). Either way, not sure why the girl is important.

Definitely she could be omitted, but why she was included? Because in every movie you see that always-present love story. There’s always a love story. It’s so evident when you pay attention to this it’s laughable.
Not in any way trying to defend those choices, but rather explain why it was chosen. I will try to present the storyboard if i have time, and then see what you think. Thank you for help!

[mister3d]

CONCEPT NAME: STASIS

WEBSITE: www.stasisgame.com

Good game! I will comment for now only on those things which seem to me could be adjusted (from the gameplay video).
-the sound of picking seems too “depressive”, it could be somehow different
-the pool when the game starts on the floor is too crisply defined, looks a bit unnatural
-eyes get adaptive to the monochrome green colors, and don’t perceive it after some short time. You could add small accents of another colors, like warm ones maybe
-the game pace seems a little slower than it could be. I understand the hero was at sleep, but I’d make everything a bit faster, like 30%, also those scanning processes etc. Those add too little being slower. It’s really important not to turn away players and get bored, especially at the beginning.

[Frotze]

Definitely she could be omitted, but why she was included? Because in every movie you see that always-present love story. There’s always a love story. It’s so evident when you pay attention to this it’s laughable.
Not in any way trying to defend those choices, but rather explain why it was chosen. I will try to present the storyboard if i have time, and then see what you think. Thank you for help!

I have to agree with CGIPadawan about losing the girl or the cat. Or at least, if you really want to have a love story in your short, replace the cat by the girl. It’s true that there’s often a love story in movies, but it’s rare you’ll find a good one in shorts, especially if it’s not the main focus point. Honestly, 6 minutes really isn’t that long. We originally wanted our short to be 6 min, and it ended up 8 minute long with more than half of the original stuff cut.

If I could give you one advice, work out a good animatic. It will save you tons of work down the road and you’ll see right away if you have time for this or that.

[mister3d]

Frotze, thanks man. I will definitely think about this. Before animation there’s plenty of time, so I will re-think it and re-test it properly. It’s true most shorts fail on the story.

[banman7]

CONCEPT NAME: NeverEndingPrincessStory CATEGORY: Animation PROJECT DESCRIPTION: Think Harry Potter meets Dallas. An original production with mass appeal. The catch-phrase is “Find Your One True Love” and the concept (IP) includes a fully-functional and state-of-the-art dating website to help you do just that.

Try running an AO pass on everything to give it a softer look.
Also maybe you can look into Kinect Mocap or something to naturalize the animation.
Zigntrack facial capture plus many more if you are using Daz characters.
Maybe go out and take pictures and do IBL instead. These renders are a little harsh.

Here is an animation I did in about an hour and let render overnight. I used Poser characters, IBL and mocap. Just imported it into Vue and hit render. I think you can do something similiar. http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/463214

If you are going to develop an IP you need a little higher level of quality or at least some stylization. Work on your renders and if you can’t animate fake it.
I know the path you are taking and believe me my first animations looked just like this but there are simple things you can do to make it watchable.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/57943 first animations. 2002 had to make em light.

Maybe even do it in vector or something would increase the watchability.
Check it out.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/119403
This is not mine by the way.

You have to up that rendering or at least stylize it a bit to make it watchable.

[mister3d]

CONCEPT NAME: Le Gouffre

Looks great (as other’s projects here). I only want to ask: are eyes occlusion omitted for stylistic choice? because it always catches my eye with being overly crisp, but if it’s intended then ok.

[Frotze]

Looks great (as other’s projects here). I only want to ask: are eyes occlusion omitted for stylistic choice? because it always catches my eye with being overly crisp, but if it’s intended then ok.

It’s a stylistic choice. But we’re aware it looks a little creepy sometimes, especially from up close, so lately we’ve been working out ways to bring more volume. Hopefully, we’ll be able to show it off eventually, once we reach shots that don’t contain too many spoilers. Anyway, thanks for your input!

[CGIPadawan]

Definitely she could be omitted, but why she was included? Because in every movie you see that always-present love story. There’s always a love story. It’s so evident when you pay attention to this it’s laughable.
Not in any way trying to defend those choices, but rather explain why it was chosen. I will try to present the storyboard if i have time, and then see what you think. Thank you for help!

Then maybe the GIRL should be the SCIENTIST! By finding her trapped in the wreckage you automatically make one invest in the other. It’s like in SPEED. because the cop and the girl are in the bus… they automatically have a relationship.

When the thing is over… they can kiss… and nobody is the wiser!

Note to Rob: At the risk of letting my Day Job influence this thread, we probably need PROJECT CODES and a rule that we use the PROJECT CODE in subject line? I can see a lot of criss-crossing now.

[mister3d]

Then maybe the GIRL should be the SCIENTIST! By finding her trapped in the wreckage you automatically make one invest in the other. It’s like in SPEED. because the cop and the girl are in the bus… they automatically have a relationship.

When the thing is over… they can kiss… and nobody is the wiser!

That’s a good idea!

[teruchan]

I agree it could get very difficult to find and keep up with things in here. This is my first time checking in and 3 pages already?!

SHOW AND TELL:

The fan art I did:
http://www.stasisgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/STASIS-INFINITE-B.jpg

So you posted this fan art solely on your own site, and not in any of the popular art portals? That is TRULY an example of going viral. Great stuff!

[banman7]

Originally Posted by Pyke SHOW AND TELL: The fan art I did: http://www.stasisgame.com/wp-conten…-INFINITE-B.jpg

Holy crippity crap. That looks fantabulous

[tleisher]

Emergan-C :30 “Send in The Reinforcements” Spec Commercial

STATUS NUMBER: 1

THE PITCH: A woman is feeling sick. We zoom down her throat into her stomach where green monsters are upsetting her stomach. On the horizon, a group of glowing knights with orange peels for shields/armor. They charge into battle as we zoom out of her mouth where she just finished drinking a glass of Emergan-C.

This spec commercial will be done using Blender, and all assets will be released open source after the spot is online.

TEAM MEMBERS: 5
Ty Leisher - Director/Lighting/Layout/Animation
Alexis Edelman - Producer
Matias Mendiola - Concept Artist
Maile Cassara - Production Designer
Krišs Bērzkalns - Lead Modelor

START DATE: April 2013

ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE : July 2013

WHAT WENT RIGHT THIS WEEK: We completed some of the concept art for the monsters and are working on the models now. Working on completing the knights and the hero knight concepts.

We brought on Kriss to lead our modeling.

WHAT WENT WRONG: We’re progressing slower than I wanted, once we complete storyboards and the concept art I am going to try to recruit additional modelors, riggers and animators using a pitch video I am working on. Once we get our full team we’ll kick it into high gear.

SHOW AND TELL:
Will post some of the concept art once I get clearance from the producer.

[RobertoOrtiz]

I agree it could get very difficult to find and keep up with things in here. This is my first time checking in and 3 pages already?!

So you posted this fan art solely on your own site, and not in any of the popular art portals? That is TRULY an example of going viral. Great stuff!

I will post a summary of the projects on the first page with a link to the first post
by week’s end. That should help a bit.

-R