IP Incubator Club Thread 2013: Monthly-009: -September 2013

#21

@shrunkendesigner - I disagree. My intent with creating an IP is absolutely to make money, to do otherwise would be asinine. Why? Because I need money to live. If I want to make a living off of my own works, that means commercializing it and one very good technique is to explore multiple mediums and make multiple products off the same IP in order to minimize your risk and pull in revenue from multiple streams.

The romantic ideal of working purely for the artistic pursuit is just silly. If you have the time/money available to just do what you want for the sake of doing it, by all means, I encourage you to do so. And don’t get me wrong, I agree that focusing on a single piece of work can yield a much greater end product. And yes, passion in your work absolutely sells.

However, focusing on making money AND putting your heart & soul into a project are not mutually exclusive. Anyone who plans to do this for a living should ideally be considering both.

#22

@shrunkendesigner

I’m not really making 3 products. I’m making 1 in theory but delivering it in 3 different flavors. I’m simply making a movie. Taking still frames and making a standard comic as I go. Then as things progress taking those still frames and putting the animated frames in the same spot. Motionartist and flash make this real easy.

Too many people have great artistry but no sense of business. I want to use what I create to make a living. To be able to create more. If I don’t make a living creating I have to stick to jobs I hate. I love to create and if I attack it like a business it may open more doors.

I’m sorry but too many artists create something only to find 20 people view it or instead of monetizing it they end up losing opportunity they could have cashed in on and now they are working for someone else. Even worse they are working a non creative job and now have no time to create and give up on art all together.

I’m running a low budget but planning it like a business for profit so I can tell my stories and ditch the day job.

I’m just going back to my roots. When I was a child I’d create little picture books and tell all types of stories. They were so good the teacher used them for storytime. Kids liked them so I started to sell them to classmates. I loved it. My plan is to do it again.

To each there own but I’m going all out creatively but I find being creative in my business ideas is just as fun and exciting to me.

Personally I think artsy Fartsy shorts are a waste of time. But then I have to adjust my thinking on the matter because each creative person has their own outlet and in the end not a waste of time. If they love doing it.

I just happen to love giant monsters and superheroes and wanted to see them fight. But I also the idea of creating a business model. It is simply a part of my creative process. I make stuff I want to see. It just so happens there are nerds out there like me who like the same stuff I do. So I hope to serve it up to them too for a little money. :slight_smile:

@grantmoore3d. I saw on Fivver a girl will pole dance for you with your message. Great idea for an advertisement.

#23

That’s also a good point, I’m also very energized when thinking of ways I could potentially generate revenue. For my “Pole Force One” concept, I’m making a game but have a laundry list of alternative potential revenue streams, each of which excites me just as much as creating the IP itself. I’m an entrepreneur with artistic creativity, best of both world!

#24

False. Does a person learn an instrument with the sole intention of writing an album to make money off of it? Or does a person learn so that they can play music and enjoy the process? I know some do the former, but they don’t last.

In Daniel H. Pink’s book “Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us,” he cites study after study where tests were carried out where extrinsic rewards (money) and the expectation of earning more of said reward, was introduced to people undertaking problem solving tasks and creative ones. Needless to say, that every time, the money and expectation of more, yielded a negative impact on the work being carried out.

Its not asinine to want to pursue something purely for creative enjoyment. To go into creating an IP with the sole intention of monetization IS asinine, and that was the (admittedly wrong) impression banman7 gave me.

If you do good work, people usually find it, in time. To have only 20 people view it isn’t a question of business or money, its to do with luck, timing, patience and marketing. You said “I make stuff I want to see,” and to be frank, thats the best approach to doing anything visually creative anyone can adopt. I just found the way of talking about selling ad space and delivering the ‘product’ as a film, animated comic and comic, less about the creative aspect of telling a good story and more about profit.

Look, you can call me an idealist, you can sling what ever insult my way and think I’m stupid for my ‘purist’ approach, but I’ve tried the other approach before and it didn’t work. It didn’t work for me and it didn’t work for my Dad and numerous other artists I know either. Believe me when I say this, but the second I focused on improving my work, making better designs and illustrations (a never ending goal), more people responded to to what I was doing… and I started to earn more.

The truth is, it depends on what you, the creator, values in this life.

#25

Its not asinine to want to pursue something purely for creative enjoyment. To go into creating an IP with the sole intention of monetization IS asinine, and that was the (admittedly wrong) impression banman7 gave me.

I don’t think either one is truly asinine. But if you want to use your creativity to make money but don’t plan for it that can be silly. If your joy is simply sheer creation and you love what your doing even if no one will see it that is all good too. I love sketching and there are a ton of sketches no one will ever see doesn’t mean I don’t sketch though. I do it because it is fun and enjoyable.

Also even if it was just to make money there is nothing wrong with that either. I mean we all have to make money. If you could make money drawing Spiderman all day vs digging a ditch or crunching numbers on some spreadsheet then that is great. More power to the person who can. Honestly if someone gave me some money to make a good mockbuster like Kiara the Brave or Rattattoing I’d do it in a heartbeat vs working fixing copiers all day which I do for a living.

Ya’ll need to see that Indie Gamer movie. I highly recommend it. I remember all the blood, sweat and tears the guys put into their games and although they loved the game they knew they also had to make money and the creator of FEZ was even saying he’d have to kill himself if FEZ wasn’t a success.

OUCH! Great documentary though.

So my goal is not simply to make money. My main goal is to tell my stories but to make sure I have a plan in place to capitalize on it as much as I can. If it works it just means I get to tell more and more stories that I want to tell and I get to do it without having to work for anyone else. That is the goal. I don’t even need to be rich. My goal is just making 1000 USD a month and I get to move to Latin America to live cheaply and a much simpler life by the Ocean and create cool stories. Getting rich probably not going to happen but can I get to that 1,000 a month? I think it is a realistic goal. And boy do I have some stories to tell you!

With everything Balance is needed. I see to many artists who wanted to make a living off their art but got too caught up in the creative aspect without thinking about the business side that they had to even give up art all together because they had to take a job doing something they didn’t like that took up their time. So pre-planning is necessary if you WANT to make some money off your art.

IF not then have fun creating as I enjoy watching what you create!

Look, you can call me an idealist, you can sling what ever insult my way and think I’m stupid for my ‘purist’ approach, but I’ve tried the other approach before and it didn’t work. It didn’t work for me and it didn’t work for my Dad and numerous other artists I know either. Believe me when I say this, but the second I focused on improving my work, making better designs and illustrations (a never ending goal), more people responded to to what I was doing… and I started to earn more.

You gotta find what works for you! :slight_smile: Nothing wrong with that. To each their own.

Owe and about the ads in the comic. I think that is part of the creative side as well. I remember as a kid I loved those goofy ads where I could buy instructions on how to make a hovercraft or have xray vision or other goofy stuff I could buy. I think have hand picked ads and make them entertaining can add to the ambiance that you are reading an old school comic. It is additive to the experience. Only additive stuff allowed though.

I’m even down for product placement. If the script calls for the character to be drinking something other than water like he got something out of the vending machine and Coca Cola wanted to pay me to have him drink a Coca Cola then I’m game for that. Now I’m not just going to have him drink a Coca cola just because but if script calls for him drinking and there is an opportunity that doesn’t detract from the story I’m all good. I think that is fun and creative and even ads to the story. Now blatant product shot, heck no!

Not like this

//youtu.be/jafd97yJFOI

So here is a question to the group. Using today’s software and techniques could we make something like Delgo for less than 500,000 USD? Or a smaller team make even better for 1/3 of that? And if so could they get it in the theatre?

I know some have been discussing on this forum that weird Space Movie that came out, the “Last Fight of the Champion”

I’ve been seeing these goofy movies in the redbox lately Monkey Business, Koala Kid, Fish N chips, Nut Crackers, something else about Ants biting or something. I mean how could I get my film in there?

#26

I will paraphrase a very successful film director at this point:

“The First Value is always to find your audience. Without them all your revenue collecting ideas are nothing. To find your audience means you must love your own material first, it’s how you know what kind of people are going to also love what you made.”

That’s all I have to say on that matter.

#27

“The First Value is always to find your audience. Without them all your revenue collecting ideas are nothing. To find your audience means you must love your own material first, it’s how you know what kind of people are going to also love what you made.” That’s all I have to say on that matter.

Well said. I agree! Sounds like good words to live by.

#28

All I was saying is that in a thread dedicated to creating intellectual property, it’s a little odd to suggest earning revenue should somehow not be a consideration because you personally want a purely artistic pursuit. I have nothing wrong with pursuing art just for the sake of it, but in that case you’re just making a project like every other person on this forum. I personally view the focus of this thread to not only support interesting projects, but to help people find ways to earn a living form their work. Comments that suggest otherwise seem a little out of spirit. It’s like walking into an entrepreneurship networking event and suggesting everyone not have a business plan, it is asinine in my opinion given the context of the club.

However, very good points on all sides and I’m glad it spurred some interesting debate. I think CGIPadawan pretty much nailed the middle-ground between these two goals.

edit: I think perhaps some of the words I’m choosing to use to make my points are a bit too harsh, I don’t mean to offend if you’re taking it that way. Just want to be clear and firm on my stance regarding this one because I’ve seen a great number of people make amazing projects with no plan beyond the art. It’s sad when an amazing project never sees the light of day because they get too caught up in what they are creating. However, all business and no passion behind it is equally bad, it’s a balance!

#29

Well, maybe this is the hill I have chosen to die on and maybe I stand alone in how I am approaching building my IP. I can’t remember who said it, but “If you build something wondrous and worthy of comment, people will comment,” and the word comment, also means comment with their wallet.

Sam, who is an exceptional programmer, came along and said he just wanted to build this game engine he had in mind and create a game that was like the games he played growing up. He saw my work and asked me if I wanted to set my world in the engine. The opportunity to work with someone of Sam’s calibre, on a project that started in my head and is quite a personal one to me, where someone else believes it is worth sinking many hours into it on top of an already full workload, was its own reward. Opportunities like this don’t come along often.

All I can think of is the first Sam Raimi Spiderman where he places a Dr. Pepper can in the centre of the shot. I don’t think Raimi had much say over that ‘creative’ choice. People with the money, hold the control, because that money comes with stipulations every time.

Those guys in the “Indie Game: The Movie,” yeah, they knew that it was important to make money at the end because they had nothing else to fall back on as their early grants/investments/savings dried up, but their first concern was to make a good game. Over time, it became about making sure the game was a monetary success, but it didn’t start that way.

Well, maybe I must have ruffled your feathers with my post, which could have come across as dogmatic. But I didn’t believe the spirit of the group is in the analogy that you referenced.

My approach to the design and creation of Oni World, was never about money and never will be. It was about the joy of creating it. If I want to make more money, I’ll continue to work where I work. Oni World was a release from that and created a balance in my life. Now an opportunity presented itself, and I’ve decided to take it, come what ever may.

#30

@shrunkendesigner - No worries, I think I might have been just having an off day and wasn’t in proper frame of mind to express my arguments positively through supportive language.

I guess for myself, it comes to the fact that I personally cannot stand working for someone else in any capacity. It’s just soul sucking and feels utterly pointless, it’s not something I’ve ever been happy doing and only do it when there is no other option. However, any time I have freelanced, or started a new business or pursued my own means of earning money in an independent fashion, I am incredibly energized and passionate. It’s a part of who I am to pursue these projects in a way which will yield a decent living wage and that itself is a form of creativity. The passion I have is equal to the passion you have, the only difference is that we’re on opposite ends of this particular discussion. Perhaps we both need to be less black-and-white? There’s lots to learn from our varying perspectives!

:beer:

#31

I guess I need to stop being so preachy and god damned verbose.

#32

In other news I wanted to share some more of my projects work and a little back story to some of the characters

Our main villain is named Milton. He has learned through some unknown force that his world is simply a creation of our reality. The unknown force sparks a change in Milton that leads him on a course to break into our world but first he must accomplish a set of tasks all of which include him going from dimension to dimension in search of certain items and things.

We will see him in parody versions of dimensions.

One day I had an idea of just how scary would Freddy be for example if he was in the Marvel Universe. Can you imagine Freddy fighting Wolverine? Or what would happen if someone legally killed the Joker? Like self defense. Would Batman be mad at that person.

I’m just having fun playing out all scenarios in a parody way since Milton will be traveling through dimensions running into “somewhat” familiar parody versions of characters we love.

But hot on his tail are Calle, Snailo and Joe.

You see all 3 in the picture above.

Does anyone know of any cool websites where this might spark some interest?

#33

Interesting talk about the money-making aspect of personal IPs! I’d like to give my two cents.

Personally, I think it’s a very humble intent to want to create just for the sake of doing something beautiful. If I had to think about making my money back with this short, I simply never would have started it. That said, it’s really a one time thing and I won’t be able to afford doing this ever again. I’ll definitely be thinking more about the commercial side of things for my next projects.

Bottom line is, we’re all trying to make a living, so that’s all right to think about monetizing what we do. But I still think it’s a lot easier to build a fan base if you don’t look like someone who’s in for the money and is rather there because he’s passionate about his work.

On this note… here my update for this week!

CONCEPT NAME: Le Gouffre

PRODUCTION BLOG: http://legouffre.com/en

CATEGORY: Animation

PROJECT DESCRIPTION:

Le Gouffre is an 8-minute animated short film about two travellers who embark on the amazing journey of crossing an impossible gap. We are working full-time on this film, living on our own money, and we are basically trying to tell a great, dramatic story for everyone while creating a unique look that blends hand-painted textures with realistic animation.

PROJECT GOALS:

Win festivals, then make a big hit on the internet and gain the visibility and credibility that will allow us to eventually be able to live on telling our own stories.

STATUS NUMBER: 10

TEAM MEMBERS: 3

Carl Beauchemin - Animation and Rigging
Thomas Chrétien - FX and Compositing
David Forest - Animation and Art Direction

START DATE: July 2011

ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: December 2013

WIP THREAD: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=153&t=1085457

WHAT WENT RIGHT THIS WEEK:

Ok I don’t know if I’m allowed to post this as it’s usually against the rules to advertise Kickstarter campaigns, but since we’re in the IP thread…

We just launched our first teaser for Le Gouffre, as well as a Kickstarter page to help us pay for the music and sounds of the film. Here’s the link, we almost made our goal and we just posted this at 11am!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1662185920/le-gouffre-animated-short-film

SHOW AND TELL:

We also uploaded an HD version of the teaser on our Vimeo account if you want to see!

https://vimeo.com/74127187

#34

Frotze,

The teaser looks absolutely beautiful. You guys are doing something special here. And whoa, your kickstarter is blasting off :wink: We are a team of 2 guys working thousands of miles away from each other. So it’s good to see you guys working under one roof. Congrats to all 3 of you. Hope you get the music done soon now.:thumbsup:

#35

@Frotze - Great job on the Kickstarter campaign, I can see you did your homework and prepared a fantastic breakdown. The comics explaining the rewards were really funny too. You’ve almost hit your goal after one day too, not bad!

#36

Thanks! It sure helps to be working side by side, but I’m sure you’ll manage if you’re both passionate about what you do. Good luck with your project, it’s already showing a lot of promise!

Thanks for the kind words (and for the pledge :))! It sure was a lot of work, but being three people helped to reduce the charge on everyone. Thomas could take care of comics while I was writing the texts. By the way, when do you plan on releasing your own campaign?

#37

Wow, my quote got all messed up in your message… make it look like I said kinder words than I actually did…I’ll take it! :smiley:

I saw you just sent out an update, congratulations of hitting your goal already! I’m planning to launch November 4th… so I’ve got a couple months to put together an awesome prototype. The next few updates should start to be a little more interesting.

#38

We just launched our first teaser for Le Gouffre, as well as a Kickstarter page to help us pay for the music and sounds of the film. Here’s the link, we almost made our goal and we just posted this at 11am!

Okay guys can you tell us about your success in getting the funding? You did this after only one day!

I know you have a great looking movie but there are a lot of projects that look good.

Can you share some of your tips on getting the money you did?

I’m going to be launching my kickstarter and need 5k myself. What is your secret? Where did you get the support? Where did you post your project? How did you build the audience you needed?

Please share.

And congrats!

Ok I don’t know if I’m allowed to post this as it’s usually against the rules to advertise Kickstarter campaigns, but since we’re in the IP thread…

It would be a shame if you couldn’t. I mean of all places not to get support.

#39

Well done guys. It looks great and I can see all the hard work that has been put into it. The graphics are really beautiful and the animation is fluid. I hope you guys get this into the major film festivals (and more) and I hope it leads you onto something bigger!

Nice one.

#40

Congratulations on the Kickstarter campaign.

Question… Doesn’t Kickstarter require you to have an American resident with which to transact the money?