Instability of CG Job

[leigh]

I will add to this a bit.

Most studios, when they bring someone on full time, typically lock them in with a contract as well, usually something like a 2 or 3 year contract.

Yep.
This is especially common when studios pay a lot of money to move you into the country from abroad They want their moneys worth!

[isolated_vertex]

Not to change the subject too much, but how is the market in the NYC area? I haven’t heard much about it so I’m guessing it isn’t that large. I am just starting out but it is good to find this out now. Southern Cali sounds nice, but I’m a NY boy at heart and if there are jobs to be had and enough to live on that would be great. But I am flexible and willing to move to a CG intense area.

[nickepstein]

getting better - we have opened a studio there, and there are others too…
this article may be of interest:

http://3dny.org/?p=31

that site is probably a good resource if your interested in working in the ny area
nick

[PatternRecognition]

I think there are about 30 of us permanent staff artists here. Then, depending on the size of the feature we’re working on, they’ll bring in a bunch of freelancers. When we’re knee deep in production, there are generally more freelancers than staff.

That’s great news for those of us who wish to travel around before settling down for a ‘stable’ job

[Shaderhacker]

you may be hired full -time but if theres no contract, the minute it get’s slow you’ll be laid off. Full time, contract if theres no legal binding papers it dosen’t mean anything. it’s all about the bottom line, if it costs them $ to keep you’ll be gone.

Quoted for agreement. Full-time means nothing. It’s still “at-will” and you can be removed at the drop of a hat.

-M

[CelticArtist]

I will add to this a bit.

Most studios, when they bring someone on full time, typically lock them in with a contract as well, usually something like a 2 or 3 year contract.

also, most regular contracts and project hire positions ahve clauses that state that the company can cut you if production slows anyways.

Studios that have staff, will in most cases cut project hires and contractors before cutting their fulltimers…this is not always teh case though.

-todd

From my pretty limited experience of seeing this kind of thing, you are correct, with one caveat, that 2-3 year contract binds You to Them, it does not bind Them to You, meaning you cannot look for work within that time frame, however, if they decide they don’t want or need you anymore, you can be let go at the drop of a hat, fulltime vs contract usually means one thing = benefits and overtime, that is it, it doesn’t guarantee stability in the least. If you want stability, be good, studios generally don’t let go assets to the production, the weaker are (almost) always let go first. i say almost because politics does come into it, sometimes alot more than should be, but usually it’s the people who just aren’t pulling quite enough weight who are let go soon, speaking of which, i need to get back to work

[EricLyman]

I will add to this a bit.

Most studios, when they bring someone on full time, typically lock them in with a contract as well, usually something like a 2 or 3 year contract.

this is true in some studios where you work with proprietary software too. There’s no need to bring someone on and then cut them just as they’re getting fast with the tools.

[isolated_vertex]

getting better - we have opened a studio there, and there are others too…
this article may be of interest:

http://3dny.org/?p=31

that site is probably a good resource if your interested in working in the ny area
nick

Cool information, good to know.
Thanks.

[twidup]

From my pretty limited experience of seeing this kind of thing, you are correct, with one caveat, that 2-3 year contract binds You to Them, it does not bind Them to You, meaning you cannot look for work within that time frame, however, if they decide they don’t want or need you anymore, you can be let go at the drop of a hat, fulltime vs contract usually means one thing = benefits and overtime, that is it, it doesn’t guarantee stability in the least. If you want stability, be good, studios generally don’t let go assets to the production, the weaker are (almost) always let go first. i say almost because politics does come into it, sometimes alot more than should be, but usually it’s the people who just aren’t pulling quite enough weight who are let go soon, speaking of which, i need to get back to work

lol, not always…what you are refering to is more of project hire/limited contract hire.

what I was referring to is a fixed term contract, that basically states neither side can leave the contract without some ssort of compensation.

There are several studios that do this for their full time “staff” people.

As for the rest of your comments, from my experiences (at 2 of the largest VFX facilities in the world, on 2 of the largest vfx films in recent years) , being good doesnt mean crap. its just means you are good. same goes for using proprietary software, it doesnt hold up either when lay offs are happening.

Management will look at who leads, who follows, what they know, how they adapt, and who doesnt cause problems, along with a lot of other things, including how much you cost them. A lot of the times, the ppl that get laid off were really good artists and were busting their ass.

Gonna end my contributions with this.

Again, MOST places bring people on in one of the following aspects :

intership : you get to be a wage slave and hopefully get a bit of experience…no guarentees for sure here

project hire : you are there for x project only, no security as you can be cut when production doesnt need you anymore

Contract : vary greatly, but most bind you, not the studio for employment, so like a project hire, they can cut you any time

Staff : at will work, means you can leave anytime, they can fire you anytime, BUT if you are valuable, and if the studio is willing to offer you staff, which usually means WAY better benefits, they are going to secure you with a fixed contract that means neither side can exit the contract while its enforced.

On top of that, most places that work with contracts also put a clause in there where the studio can at will extend it at any time for a set period defined in the contract.

When its all said in done, none of it means shit as there are ways out of every contract, no matter how binding they are…it all comes down to a good employee/employer relationship and trust.

-todd
he who has dealt with MANY contracts from MANY places

[leigh]

Yeah listen to Todd, he knows what he’s talking about

[twidup]

ok, gotta add this little bit…thanks Leigh

and by the way, I love the new avatar, hehehehe

-todd

[leigh]

and by the way, I love the new avatar, hehehehe

hehehehehehehe

[beaker]

From my pretty limited experience of seeing this kind of thing, you are correct, with one caveat, that 2-3 year contract binds You to Them, it does not bind Them to

It really depends the state/country you live in and the laws that bind. They can make you sign that contract, but it doesn’t mean it is actually binding. In California for example, non compete contracts and anything that prevents someone from looking for work elsewhere is not binding. So even if you do sign a 1-2 year contract, you can actually leave at anytime. The company cannot sue you for leaving, but can sue the employer you are going to work for.

Of course you still have to deal with the ramifications of doing that though. You will probably never be able to get another job at that company again and might get a bad name because many HR managers in the VFX industry know each other and are also freelance and move from company to company. Many companies though, especially large ones can be very flexible about letting people out of their contracts or doing other things like taking a sabbatical or leaving for another company for a project. Pretty much just discuss it with your supervisor, since they are in the same boat you are and understand the ups and downs of this industry.

[Spinmeister]

Hi. Me again. Asking yet another CG career question. From what I hear, CG is not a stable career to get into. Moving from job to job, project to project. How then, are you supposed to settle down with a family if your career moves you from place to place?

It is definitely a nomadic, circus lifestyle which I’ve avoided for the most part by working for the art and media departments of large corporations and as a freelancer in my own business. Unless you are within the inner circle of a CG house, or in management you run the risks of project to project instability.

I’ve never lived in L.A., but it seems like there is a lot of work there and you could keep circling around from one place to the next. Seems like most dedicated CG people try and establish a base in L.A. even if they have to blast off to NZ or elsewhere.

You may also consider a life in academia.

As for me, I doubt if I’ll ever work for a big computer animation studio again, unless it’s on my own terms.

Best of luck!

A happy homeowner, and ex-PDI/DW guy

[Shaderhacker]

  A happy homeowner, and ex-PDI/DW guy

Hi Hank! I remember you! PM me when you get a chance…

-M

[Blusoul]

How do partners who both work in this Industry stay together? I mean its hard enough going solo and trying to find a job here there and everywhere. It must be dam hard when you go out with someone in the industry and your both trying to get work in the same city? When working from contract to contract, how can one have a career, some level of security and have kids?

[Zack_Attack]

I dont know about you guys but I love travling and one of the reasons I choose to wanna work in this career is because I cant stand having an office job or one that I would bored with. Now with the family if your a new guy like a college grad im not sure if any one would be married and have kids already. As for the family part at one point your going to want to settle but not till you have a good place in the industry. thats my take on it.

[Zack_Attack]

never mind

[CaptainJackSparrow]

To answer the original question, hell yeah it’s unstable, that is IMO the worst thing about the industry. Full time don’t mean jack, you’ve only got as much stability as your two weeks notice period.

That means you can never plan for anything, cos you never know when the rug might get pulled from under your feet.

And it don’t matter how good you are, if your company goes under cos of some daft managerial blunders then there ain’t nothing you can do about it.

Worse than that though, you could just end up working for some sweatshop games company that will fire your butt soon as they find someone who will do your work cheaper and for longer. Worse still, I think usually the only people in those situations who do last are the management kiss-butts and those who don’t mind long hours for bad pay.

Of course you could be lucky and get a decent job, all depends on the company, but in my experience most are all far too concerned with making money to care about their workers long term.

[AmyScott-Murray]

[QUOTE=Zack Attack] Now with the family if your a new guy like a college grad im not sure if any one would be married and have kids already. As for the family part at one point your going to want to settle but not till you have a good place in the industry. thats my take on it.[/QUOTE

Unfortunately not true I will graduate in three years’ time, and be looking for a job with my long-term boyfriend and small daughter in tow. I would never be without them, but I really wish sometimes I’d got the career thing sorted first… on the other hand, they are what motivates me.

I always knew I’d have to move away from where I am now to get a job… but the thought of moving again every six months after that is pretty depressing. I keep hoping I will get lucky