Important petition : connection between the renderqueue and the pictureviewer


#68

I’d have figured you’d find a way to make an expression to drive the render region option, but I assume you probably had the loft solution built prior to that feature coming out?


#69

@noseman : ok fair remark, how can i convince you?
i think i can only explain this with telling you what’s happening in my line of work (archiviz for architecture competitions)

10 years a go it was normal to make 2 or 3 images for a competition
nowadays they (the architect but also the competition-organisation) demand 10 to 20 images.
a good exemple is this project http://www.bmd3d.com/bmdpages/bmdNMM.html
as you can see this is a complex project with lot’s of objects and a certain level realism.
Typical for these competitions they want large images : double page A3 bookworks are a standard
plus they wanna be able to show details of those large images because they wanna explain certain elements of the design
So the images are always rendered at 5000 to 8000pixels, = rendertimes on one computer are high: 4 to 18hrs
and putting the renderings in a batch is handy when you have to do 10 images
Of course we make previews and double-check if any furniture is floating above the floor etc…
But time, deadline-stress and of course being a competition: there are last minute changes in the design etc… mistakes happen.
In every project there are images we have to re-render because i forgot to put the lights back on, etc…
(every camera has his own sun, background plane, set of lights, set of trees etc… )
Seeing the rendering progress (like with the renderbatch) helps prevent these mistakes
Also things like material ID & Object ID or re-render just a part of the image are very useful to us
Another typical error why re-render an image is AA & GI
When the 1 on 1 preview is rendering you see you should have used a higher GI or AA

People also ask me why not use the stage-object and animate the camera, of course sometimes we use this method
but most of the projects are too complex and big to start doing this kind of “stage object animations”
to many things change with every camera, it takes to much time to make the animation

Does the above explain to you why this is for archiviz work an important feature ?
i have no idea if it’s useful in other area’s of 3dwork but it’s nothing new, it was possible with the renderbatch until R13

i don’t think there many people not even maxon against a full preview in renderqueue,
the question is more how important is this for your work


#70

interesting i never used this method, sounds complex but i have to test it to see how it works,
thx for the tip


#71

Correct:) But both options are actually in the same set up of mine.
They are using the same parameters.
It depends on straight alpha is needed or not as well as dof.


#72

i think this method is similar to what we sometimes do with vray
splitt the render in 4 or more parts


#73

i totally understand the whole point of needing to run multiple images and the re-renders…

but if you essentially are needed to watch the render anyway - what is really different about just running them in the standard picture viewer? i mean if you are there to watch and check - what is different? and if you are not there to check and watch them - what is different about running them in the batch as it is?

the only other option would be either set up NET or use a farm where you can put up multiple images at one time and essentially run multiple images in parallel (or even tiled) and speed up the rendering of multiple images that way.

the last idea is if you need to watch images run and the picture viewer is the way to do that - what about duplicate your C4D folder and then render two images simultaneously - would be slower (but total time would be pretty much the same for two to complete as runnign them back to back) but at least you will be able to see the progress and could stop one while the other one runs etc

or run images on multiple computers in your office using picture viewer etc

yes it would probably be nice to have the old way back based on your wants - but really i just don’t think there is enough justification to maxon to put it back the way it was since it seems there are multiple ways around this (unless it is a really easy thing for them to do and they can do that in some point release)

dann


#74

I also think the preview suggestion is valid. However…

Do you seriously need to render at full resolution, with full AA, and with AO or whatever post effects/passes you’re using to get a preview? It’s common practice when rendering animations to first render out a half (or less) resolution preview with geometry or no AA and other settings minimized before turning on all the bells and whistles. I do the same thing for large stills. If something looks problematic in a preview you can then use render region to render out a full view of a particular area.

That may not reveal 100% of the problems, but it should suffice to eliminate issues like lights turned off or object visibility turned off, etc.


#75

The problems Peter is talking about happened me many times as well. It would be nice to have a preview of what are you rendering.
Jiri


#76

Hi Peter. Ok I get it.
It’s one of those things that may not seem as a streamlined workflow, but will save tons of time if any errors are caught within the rendering time. Also, it’s a “stress lowering” feature.
I don’t know about Maxon, but I have a plan to see if this is possible with a simple plugin.
Let me look into it and I’ll keep you posted.

Best Regards.


#77

Of course I also agree with peter, I’m working on C4D 11.5 and I can’t imagine working with the new renderbatch system.

Preview renders, lower res - yes, I think almost everyone does that, but stress, lack of time, sickness etc. creates more risk to do a mistake. You can’t always see some artifacts, or small gaps in lower res anim, or still.

Dann… People don’t sit always all the time in front of the computer to watch if the image is ok. The old renderbatch gives you the opportunity to go away from the computer and come to it after few minutes and check if everything is ok.

Creating two cinema folders? Don’t be offended but are you serious?! This is what we get for paying new c4d updates? To go back and have to play with folders like 0.9 ver of program?:slight_smile:

What bothers me the most, why Maxon just didn’t make an option to use the preview or not. Was it that difficult?

Cheers:)


#78

There is a speed hit when you have to refresh the image while rendering. Also, it seems that the majority of users didn’t care about the lack of preview.
I can understand, after Peter’s explanation, how much this can make your life easier though.


#79

i think the majority just didnt say any yet (as me), an option really would
not hurt,the speed hit is not dramatic at all.

i dont understand this can be a discussion at all.(if no techical issue that makes it impossible speaks against)


#80

I’m discussing this with Niklas, to see if it is possible to do it with a script or plug.

@Peter
Are you on Mac or Windows?


#81

The simplest way would be to trigger several renders in sequence with a script. However, if the script is running in the main thread, it will block GUI interactions. Thus, the script or plugin needs to run in a separate thread that allows the main message loop to handle the GUI / picture view messages.
While Python allows the creation of threads, I haven’t yet tried to trigger a picture viewer render from another thread. I’m curious whether this might cause issues with C4D’s threading system.


#82

yes i agree it would be nice to have the feature back - even if a small percentage of users want it, if it was a simple “fix” to put back then it would be the best solution.

but, my goal is to solve the problem, and keep work getting done - or find a way to solve the problem, not tilt at windmills or whine about something missing into the wind.

i did that for a while about NET and better/new/missing/ features and nothing happens, yet deadlines and work still needs to be done - so i just would not hold my breath about this missing feature and i would find a way to work NOW.

i was just giving options and ideas on how to get the issue solved without waiting on a fix/update that may never come.

some may “refuse” to work around things due to principal alone - but that will not solve the problem either - so as i said - my goal in life is to solve my problem as easy and efficiently as i can - even if it is not the most elegant and get back on with more important things

dann


#83

yes, there are some issues with the implementation, but I’m confident a solution will be found.
I’ll post my finds here.


#84

That’s indeed the solution i would prefer, 3 or 4 computers for rendering
but it has a big prize tag that’s not justified in this economic climate

we do as many previews as possible, but there’s always a deadline etc…
ex. with GI & AA you sometimes see you could have used lower-settings, when doing the full rendering

Wow that would be great, thanks !
“something to create a batch, that opens c4dfiles and starts them rendering with the pictureviewer open” thats it basically

i’m working on Mac with R13

btw from what i understand maxon made the render-queue without a bigger previewwindow to save RAM when doing large animations


#85

Hi Peter,
for animations, all you have to do in the Render Queue is double click on the project, and it will open the animation in the Picture Viewer. That’s why they didn’t include a bigger preview :slight_smile:


#86

just in case you missed it:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=1102212


#87

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