I think Maxon is trying to get me to switch to Maya or XSI....


#1

or lightwave or 3ds max…

Here’s the situation… I use C4d at work and I love it… I like it a lot more than Maya (wich i know is really powerfull but I don’t find it user-friendly at all).
The other day I saw a pots here about studica.com having student prices for C4D. So since I’m a student, I thought It’d be cool to have a copy at home to play around and experiment, get to know the program better.
So I surfed over to studica.com and what do I find? the studio bundle for 800 bucks! wow that seemed like a steal, untill I saw Maya Unlimited for under 700 and even included some training dvds,maya complete for around 500 with a bunch of training books, XSI for $300 (the version that costs $8000), LW for 400, 3ds for 590, etc… all complete versions with no limitations other than you can’t use them for paid work…

So… with that in mind and the fact that we also have Maya at work, i’m really considering taking the jump. I’m sure that having it at home to fool around with, It wouldn’t be too hard to switch.

I might get flamed, but my intention wasn’t to stir up trouble… I love C4D, but financially, it’s making more sense for me to jump ship.


#2

usually I would recommend buying the product that you like the best, not the one that will cost you a few hundred dollars less - choosing a 3D app is a long term commitment (learning, plugin investment, your library of files, etc.)

if you must consider cost as the most important part of your decision, remember, you won’t be a student forever, so you should really choose your app based on cost of owning it as a professional


#3

Hash is even cheaper.:slight_smile:

But have to admit, these student prices are pretty low (Maya and XSI). Lightwave, dont know, I have never considered Lightwave to be comparable to the other main player. Just my opinion, of course.


#4

well, you won’t get any flame from me… :slight_smile:

I was talking to a rep out in our area yesterday, and… I also was alarmed by the price of the education bundle… wow

Thing is, the rep further explains… there have been so many that have exploited the educational packages, in that they were buying them even though they did not properly qualify, that Maxon was forced to up the cost, as well tighten the requirements…

Ok, I can sort of understand this… however, it was further suggested that only those in certain courses, as well those in high school would qualify, while those in elementry and jr high would not… well… thing is, we have one son in each of these levels of school, however it is our ten year old in elementry who is the 3d guy in our family… this little guy lives for 3d, and has been on Wings3d for about a year now, or almost, and is now ready to take the jump into C4D… he models well, utilizes loops very well, knows just how much to create in each subd level, and is totaly ready to get into a larger app inorder to take things to the next level… but he does not qualify.

well…

and even if some arrangement was to be made, I don’t eally know if we could afford the cost at this time, nor do I know if the school could absorb the cost of getting C4D put on the machines in the school computer lab…

and then there is the small part about having to upgrade the machines at the schools, in order to make this all work well… I mean I doubt that g3 imac’s would be any good for this eh…

so here we are as parents, trying hard to facilitate advanced education for our children, at as early age as possible, yet we are met with some bottom lines which are slightly beyond our meager means… very disheartening…

and to top it all off, it is stated in the charter of right’s, that all children are to be given equal opportunity in education… and this just isn’t so at all… hmmm

I kinda think that it would be great if Maxon, Apple, and schoolboards worldwide, would work more closely together, than ever before… that there could/should be, much more funding allocated for these educational tools, and, that there should be better provisions put into place inorder to ensure that any and all, gain access to the best educational tools possible… and since it is well known that C4D is the most user friendy of the bunch, then I would suggest that indeed it would be a great fit into said institutions…

Perhaps the mechanisms to facilitate such have not yet been explored as well as could be the case… :wink:


#5

Maxon seems to be getting a bit more greedy i think - what really sucks is that if you buy the core (as I did) you are totally screwed if you ever want to expand. Literally it is cheaper to buy a whole new package than to upgrade your core! How messed up is that?

So I bought core, then BP1, then the 8.5 upgrade. Now say I want XL or even Studio - it’s go out and buy it, with their special it’s actually $200 cheaper to buy it…i mean come on, do the words “repeat business” mean anything to these people? So I ask about going just to BP2 - and they said they could knock of $20…WOOHOO!

Until this i’ve had nothing bad to say about Maxon - but damn they sure don’t make it worth your while to stick around!


#6

well this does seem strange…my advice is if you want cinema…call maxon and tell them you want it…but mayas educational is cheap…will they offer it to you for the same cost as the maya version…if you don’t ask you don’t get in life! if you do ask…all they can say is no…and what have you lost…nothing…but everything to gain.

whats seems incredible is the differences in price…they are big differences…and you would need to check license agreements i’ll bet there is something in there…but you never know.

i agree its not just about price…but with pricing like that it seems maxon isn’t interested in student licensing which seems a bit shortsighted…so unlikely…i’d check.:shrug:

or write to one of the top doggies at maxon and voice your concerns as a potential customer and see how they feel about loosing you to the competition…heh heh…maybe not fair…but reality.


#7

Educational versions are for people who are studying something for which this specific application may be useful.
I don’t feel someone studying for cook, or following evening classes in philosophy should be given educational prices for, say, Photoshop, or Cinema. These people qualify for a free version like 6CE, or can use Wings.
Yet worse are people buying a license for a nephew who qualifies, but who isn’t interested in the app at all, and the using the app for themselves.

The main reason for the modular approach is that people who don’t need Mocca,TP, or S&T do not have to buy it. If you want to upgrade afterwards, it’s logical you pay more.
Don’t get me wrong: I do am in that situation. I do not qualify for any kind of discount so I purchased basic module (core) and Advanced renderer. I do miss Soft IK from time to time, but the bundle was (and is) beyond my budget. Yet I see no reason to complain as I don’t feel Maxon is in any way mistreating me. People who did buy the bundle would be mistreated if others, like you and I, would be able to upgrade at the price they paid.
If you want it all, then pay for it all. If you can’t: be happy there are modules.


#8

I think getting in touch with maxon and telling them I’m interested in purchasing, but that their pricing is driving me to the competition is what I will do , see what happens…

About price not being everything, well for a college student paying for his own tuition, it is… even 20 bucks can be a big deal for me.
And about the cost of owning it as a proffesional… well atleast here in mexico usually the company you work for buys it so you don’t have to consider that, and since its a perpetual licence I could still use it to fool around/train at home after I’m no longer a student.

that’s what almost made me buy XSI, since it was the cheapest, but the fact that I have no experience with it and I do with Maya made me lean more towards Maya.


#9

I totaly agree, and from the information I recieved from the rep, this was part to play in why things have really been tightened up…

And then along comes kids like my son, who is extremely keen on 3d, and ouch… we can’t afford the cost, and nor can his school, or the rest of the schools in the district for that matter… and these kids are not in any cooking course (well they do have a home ec course :wink: ) , rather they have a computer lab, with 30 puters and no 3d software… what a drag ):

oh, and btw, he learned to model with Wings3d, and is currently learning to texture with CE :wink:

But heck yes, it would be nice to get something for the schools, as well as the students, whereby they could learn the most advanced tools avail… and of course, we parents would be right in there learning and participating as well… but… we would not be making any money while doing so eh… I mean you can suggest about the uncle part to this Erik, but I would also suggest here that should my son gain an educational budle you could be sure that I would be exploring the bundle with him… we learn from each other eh, I mean we are after all father and son, and we do many things together, 3d being one of those activitites we enjoy sharing together… the main part to that is however, that our son gains the best tools to learn with, at a cost we can afford to absorb… I may not ever become employable within the wonderful world of 3d, but gauging from my son’s attitude and abilities with 3D thus far, I am fairly certain that he will make the most of it… :slight_smile:


#10

Umm… I have my work folder at home. If you know your serial numbers from work, you can literally copy the entire Maxon folder heirarchy onto a DVD, take it home, drag it from the DVD to your hard drive, launch the program and enter the serial numbers. Now your home configuration will mirror your work configuration exactly.

I’m kind of confused why you want the student version if you have access to a fully licensed version already.

Kevin


#11

that would be as legal as downloading a pirate copy… and… pirate copies don’t come with printed manuals/install cds/support/etc


#12

Maxon reps have always seemed to be very helpful to people when they have financial issues. They really do listen to their users and potential users. Also, my two cents, I work at a place that has seats of all the major apps, and always find myself using Cinema. And when it came time to buy a package for my home use, it was Cinema first and foremost. It’s not always about getting the lowest price, but the best software. That said, I will say again that Maxon has a history of helping people out, students, starving artists, etc. (In other words, I can hang out at night and use any app under the sun for free at my place of employment, and it is Cinema that drew me in and still does). And even though I could hang out at work(despite the mrs. complaints of late hours), I shelled out my own money to use it at home. Not one regret.


#13

No, that would be legal as placing the copy you own on another computer you happen to use. That’s why the serial numbers work on different computers.

It would only be pirateing if your employer’s policy says that’s not OK. Maxon is certainly not going to sue business customers for allowing operators to use the license on whichever machine they can be productive on.

Or maybe I’m naïve!

Kevin


#14

I’d say taking home company software is borderline at best, but the real defining issue is whether the software will be operating on more than one computer at any given time. If you’re using the software at home and someone at work is using it too, then no, I don’t think the vender would be happy about that. If you’re using the software at home instead of using it at work, and nobody at work is using it simultaneously, then I think the vender would be understanding of it if not thrilled about it.


#15

Well, that would rule me out then. I’m a graduate student in history and my daily job has nothing to do with 3D, all my Cinema experiences comes from my free time at home. What you’re saying is that if I didn’t decide for a 3D career 10-15 years ago, I should be forced to use free software. I don’t agree. Thanks to Maxon’s educational licenses I’ve been able to discover an amazing world of 3D, a world that would have been beyond my financial situation otherwise.

/Anders


#16

I am a painter, a traditional artist if you want. I live for my art, and try to survive on what I can sell (I don’t ever create something because of commercial reasons as commercialism and art are the worst ennemies) and some stupid jobs I do to pay the rent and food. I’ve been living like this since I left school many years ago.
I could have gotten a license on my nephew’s name (studying architecture) and used Cinema as probably many others do, but this goes against my personal sense of honour and correctness. So I bought the basic module and advanced renderer, and it’s difficult for me to resist a plug-in when a good one comes out. Those guys also try to survive. I do not use Cinema for any commercial reasons either.
I do not judge anyone for being different or having another point of view. But it’s not because you discovered a fascinating new world that it’s normal a commercial company should offer you special reduction. I would be extremely inspired when I were able to visit Banteay Srei, but no company is ever giving me reduction because i’m an artist. On the contrary: they prefer to see my heels to my toes.
Students have many advantages: they pay less taxes, don’t have to pay for social security when they do some breadwinning job, have special restaurants, pay less for Internet connection (or have a connection at school),…no problem. One day, they’ll pay it all back to mama-society.
If I were Maxon then no, you would not qualify for a student’s license. The moment you enroll in evening classes on design, architecture, art,…then yes. Or the moment you would be using 3D later in your professional life to create models of, say, Etruskan or Viking objects (archaeology). Then yes.
This was a very difficult, even a bit a sad reply as I do appreciate your work/website a lot, really do! In fact: you should be made part of the beta-team and get a copy for free.


#17

The real problem here is you are confusing the product line and not comparing apples to apples. The “Studio Bundle” that you reference from Maxon is inclusive of the XL Bundle, BodyPaint, Dynamics, Sketch & Toon and Net Unlimited. All of these products can be purchased seperately for $295 for students…so as you can see $800 for the bundle is a pretty ggod deal.

You prices you were quoting for competitive products would only be a fair comparison with our XL bundle alone…which again is $295…the lowest # you quoted of the bunch.

Just wanted to clarify that misinformation.


#18

I don’t say it’s normal behaviour for a company to offer educational licenses, but I do say I’m glad many of them are. Yes, I’m a student at a university in Sweden. Yes, I have many benefits but not as many as you described. I don’t have a free Internet connection. There are no special restaurants for students that I know of. We don’t have reduced prices on our text-books. Yes, I have a (huge) student-loan which I’m already paying back on a monthly basis. If I ever were to do a “breadwinning job” (haven’t had one in my whole life, as far as I know) I would pay just as much taxes as anyone else.

If you were Maxon then I wouldn’t qualify for an educational license just because I don’t study any graphical arts in its widest sense. That’s too bad, beacuse I like doing 3D and thanks to Maxon I sometimes think I’m getting pretty good at it. I don’t plan on sticking to history once my dissertation is done (if it ever will be!) but rather squeeze myself out on the freelance market. Once that happens I will be off the educational program and into the realm of commercial licenses.

Now, according to you this scenario would never even be allowed in the first place. If I don’t enroll in an evening class on design I’m not supposed to be using this software at all. I find that to be a bit short-sighted. Buying an educational license is a great way for students (all students - talent can be found even among those studying Roman Latin) to get their feet wet in 3D. Many will not continue using the software but some of us will - by educating ourselves, saving for upgrades and plugins, and eventually we will purchase a commercial license. When that happens I can - hopefully - even make some money on 3D, something I’m not allowed to using the educational license.

/Anders


#19

Actually I disagree.
Ok, there is no comparison to BP - it is top in what it does. However Xsi has a lot of tools that the C4d XL doesn’t have… If it’s the 8000$ version, it has for ex, a full node based compositor, cloth simulation etc…
Max has reactor, LW8 has its own dynamics engine, Maya of course as well, Xsi too…
I personaly find it quite steep to charge, it your last quote is correct, 3x as much for a student version of the Studio bundle, compared to the XL bundle.
jp


#20

I have Maya unlimited at work, never use it execpt firing it up to test if my plugin works (AI game programmer). At home I use my fully paid XL version of C4D to teach my kids how to model and to do illustrations for my roleplaying friends, does that qualify me as some kind of 3D app license hero or what ? :wink: