Human Skin WIPs and Tips (Everyone feel free to post your own skin WIPS here too)


#541

While there’s no denial to the quality of your work, I have to disagree on this statement of yours:

Originally posted by The Ripper
Human skin is very difficult to achieve so if you don’t have the right tools such as a very good SSS shader plugin (like the one they used on the gollum in LOTR) and if you don’t use radiosity to light it… I’m sure your character/skin won’t look very realistic.

Using full-blown radiosity or any other Global Illumination solution in a production enviroment is close to impossible IMHO, or at least it’s a very stupid thing to do. Even for video resolution (600-720 pixel wide), render times are still far too long in every renderer I know of, especially if you want reasonable antialiasing and motion blur as well; not to mention displacement mapping (which is pretty much a must above 1K resolutions nowadays).

Now we’re pretty far away from Weta, Pixar, ILM or even smaller teams like the Blizzard guys, but let me use our last project for a small example:
We’ve never had any layers with render times longer than 2-3 minutes per frame, and whenever it was possible, we’ve tried to go under 1 minute (and luckily we had no crowd shots or other extremely demanding stuff).
It is quite possible to do, even when using Maya, and I don’t think we should be ashamed of the results. So this means absolutely no ray tracing, and also as few lights as possible; what’s more, we’ve rendered camera projection maps to replace the shaders + lighting whenever it was possible. And with all this, we were still barely able to stay on schedule, combined with the idiocies of the client. Also, this has allowed us to render each sequence at least 2 times, so that we had enough headroom to correct any problems and glitches (of which there are many no matter what you do).
Of course larger houses with bigger render farms and longer schedules have a different threshold, but they have similar workflow and similar goals.

Production means that you MUST make render times as fast as possible. A few - or even a few dozen - spotlights will ALWAYS be faster than the current GI solutions. So whatever you want to render, it is reasonable to state that it’ll render faster without GI. And I’ve never had a project where we were able to say, ‘so, it renders very fast, let’s add something more demanding to the scene’… :slight_smile:

There are of course clever ways to integrate some GI into the production pipeline, with the more common being ambient occlusion and reflection occlusion. New technologies should make other things possible in the future, but I don’t expect to see faster GI - there’s only faster hardware coming, but so far, scene complexity has increased at a similar rate.

Finally, let me also add that Gollum was not rendered with radiosity :slight_smile: I don’t know about enviroment based lighting. But I guess we can both admit that the results were fantastic and convincing.

Of course still images are a different matter: you can wait more for a single frame, and you won’t get many antialiasing artifacts from high frequency details (like skin bump maps). I expect that you’d have to bump up your antialiasing for animations, which would increase render times considerably…

[B]

I’m also pretty sure that those gradients on luminosity, color, translucency,… to fake the sss effect don’t work at all.
[/B]

It is quite possible that SSS works better, but I wouldn’t say that the gradient/falloff/facing ratio stuff couldn’t be ‘good enough’, especially if one takes the time to render separate passes. Don’t underestimate the possibilities of a biiiiig shader network :slight_smile:


#542

It annoys me when people make absolutist statements.

This is an exploration of achieving realistic human skin, by whatever means.

A great deal of my work is for educational videos and I have much longer production times then when I did broadcast work. I have used GI in animations so there are cases when it can be used in a production environment. I have definitely experienced render times over 2-3 minutes/frame and will no doubt continue to do so. With a big enough renderfarm and/or a long enough deadline, anything’s possible.

Now let’s get back to trying to achieve realistic, human skin…


#543

I’m sorry if I sounded absolutistic; especially because I was just opposing an absolutistic statement… :wink:

Anyway, full-blown GI is not realistic with our experiences (that is, using it for all the lighting).


#544

What are we looking for? Skin that is dynamic in an animation, or skin that just looks good in some angles?

You have to apply different methods for different shots. SSS is very good for animations, but it will add some serious time to the rendering process, also will gl and image-based lightning. Non of them is in my mind when doing animations. (sure will in the future though) For the time being, faking is all that matters. If you don’t render stills, or having a nice render-farm of-course.:slight_smile:


#545

Originally posted by The Ripper
[B]I think the simpler the better…
I’m not finished yet with the character model/textures btw!

[/B]

Well, you totally kills Ripper. Whatever you say I agree regarding to the outsanding results you are providing…
Those make FF and other Animatrix models look crappy :slight_smile:

Is there, at least, a bump or are you still with that colormap alone ?

Now I’m going to bury me with my LW license and my Wacom somewhere in the desert…
Though deserts are hard to find around Paris…


#546

cest trop -…preeeccchhhssssiiuooouuuusssss !!!

:applause: :cool: :applause:

c est marant il me rapelle un des chanteure de IAM le groupe de rap marseillais…

aillant grandie dans la banlieus nord de paris… je peut te dire…que il resemble " tres beaucoup " a mes copain d´enfance… qui venait d afrique du nord…
:wavey:


#547

Hello again, just made a new skin shader test. It ended up in a short animation of some crazy eyes:)

http://www.freewebs.com/clawie/eye_test.mov


#548

Claw, the skin shader looks real good, love the subtil color variation… Would be nice to see the whole face.
On the animation part, the blinking is weird to me. Twice the same double blinking doesn’t work, the rythm doesn’t work IMHO.
Try with one blink IMHO.
Also , the eye seem to close more at the middle of the eyelid than on the sides of the eyelid, don’t know, something wrong here.

Once again, the shading looked great, and I’d like to add this was good to have this animation after 37 pages of static heads :slight_smile:
So keep it up !


#549

Thanks for pointing that out, I fully agree with you, I made the animation in about five minutes, just wanted something to move:)


#550

Ripper: you are doing a very amazing job with this character!


#551

great thread… hello all.
I’d been working on a male model lately and I started texturing. Here is what I’ve got so far… well I use 3dsmax4 with scanline, so no radiosity, no SSS… so this skin has got some max4 crappy translucency (not worked on the ears yet).
Critiques welcome.


#552

Wow, with just scan-line? You have come pretty far, I think with some better lighting and more accurate shadows this could look even better. And, did I forget about the eyes? They are stunning!


#553

Thant is one awesome model m@. Keep going at it…I think you will come up with the right light/texturing combination in no time.

:buttrock:


#554

M@, you better start explaining your methods man, for ONLY scanline that looks totally wicked.

so common, share the material & lightsetup :beer:


#555

thanks guys :beer: I’m glad you like it, I’ve spent much time on it so far. Still have to do a render with better shadows some time, I know the shadows are crappy for now… about the eyes, the specular highlight is a quick paintover but I can render that… I just have to place an environment and add specular reflections on the eyes but I’m a bit lazy…

[MAX]
The shader is a composite between a standard material with diffuse, specular, glossiness and bump maps, and a raytrace material with a shadow/light faloff diffuse texture and a translucency map.
[/MAX]

The light setup : some blue lights array over the head, some green lights in the front, a slightly blue key light , and a red light + a blueish light on the left side of the head.


#556

Damn, that Ripper’s stuff is nice…

Here’s my latest (people will probably have seen it over at the challenge threads)

Maya default renderer 1 ambient Light, 1 directional light. Still a long way to go. I really want to have a play with HDRI reflections…


#557

how do you guys start making skin textures?

I have my method, but it is not detail enough, not good for high poly stuff.

How do you guys get all those detail, you paint them yourself?


#558

This is my very early WIP on the skin of my character.
trying to get it to the quality as close as possible to Animatrix. Default renderer of maya at the moment but trying to get it renderered with renderman in order to get SSS shader to work. 3 area lights with no cast shadow yet.
:slight_smile:
cheers~!


#559

Looking great Sas. The skin looks very Stahlbergian.


#560

tomb: yeah, the old ‘negative hsv’ layer’s in there somewhere. I like it, but it only seems to stand up under certain lighting conditions. Plus Mental Ray hates my shader, so I’ll have to pull it to pieces before I try any fancy renders.