Human Rig DVD (your thoughts?)


#1

I’m thinking about doing a new ReadyRigs DVD with v8 since the weight system is back.
I’m going to use a model that I repurposed some time ago. The training will be more of a step by step instead of a lectured. The point is to keep it short and direct. It should be an IK spline with a few good tricks. I probably will do the FK Spline as a bonus. And if anyone have any other requests I would consider that as well.
$85 prepays. (then I’m obligated) Paypal. same as before.
What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiVVyHPB3bQ


#2

Why don’t you use one of the models from makehuman.org?

It’s free, awesome and very, very realistic

the 0.9 version has all it’s function’s enabled…

the Obj file that it spits out is perfect except for a few easily editable polys in the arm. I can even send you one that I fixed if you like.


#3

I am interested, Alonzo, never really got into CA before. That would seem a good introduction. Things are little slow so it might be good to use the time to learn CA.


#4

Hi Alonzo,

I’d pay for that. Do it.

-Craig


#5

Hi Alonzo,

will it be profitable to get this new DVD
for those who already own your first one ?

best
Tom


#6

Ok then guys…Pay Up !! $85. Paypal: athreet@adelphia.net

Should take me one month after the first pay. Give or take a week.

But definitely before SNOW LEOPARD >:-/ bad joke.

Actually, I want to include the FK spine rig because it’s very useful for many other things.

Also, I plan to do a robot rig. If someone know of a really cool, robot model, I may consider it becuase I don’t have my own model.

Monday, that’s an awesome app, can’t make it export (bad file path) but I think I want to use
the model I did already. Thanks partner.


#7

Tom, I would say even if you got this one to get the first DVD. This Human rig DVD is going to spin off from the last. There will be no super long lectures. Some workflow stuff but not anatomy or principles. Just how to make it good fast, but it won’t be pre-plan. I open the model and rig the model just like if I was doing another job.

Maybe I won’t record both legs, both arms just one. I won’t go into anatomy lectures, modeling or other projects. I will do some facial morphing but no heavy GUI, that’s a topic by itself. Weight map stuff. Reverse foot control. This will not be “feature film” rigging just commercial.

I do need to show the FK spine because it going to “explain” link windows with the orientations. There will be some speeding up off video to reduce length. (speeding up voice and some cuts) I will speed up my voice if needed but not narrative. it will be a working demonstration and with take-a-ways from the critiques of the last DVD. The two DVDs are two completely different rigs. There is no spines on the Deformer Rig, this will focus on spines. IK and FK but not redundant.

All the READYRIGS stuff is about best practices. The core main goal is to take anything I learn in Maya that is USEFUL in EI. My goal is have the info that I used for successful paying rig jobs in EI to be documented and available publicly. I would like to also share some of the other cool stuff I have learned like FBX and dynamics animation, cloth or integration of Maya with EIAS. Some one showed me something for FK/IK but I personally never use FK/IK controls even in Maya. it’s just preference.

There will be no giveaway disks this time. I have to charge, but if you have team I don’t care if you share once you purchase.

Again suggestion box is still open. It’s june. I will start amping up but I don’t it will take me long. EI rigging is pretty straight forward. There’s only one type of skinning in EI so we are only going to focuse on basic weight map painting with some technics to make it easier.


#8

Hey Folx.

I’m regathering my thoughts on this project.

I believe I had it in mind to do two rigs. One rig would be a fast “Fred Merlo” type rig with a few new AVT tips. The object being to had a very simple fast rig with an IK spine. (Effector box controllers)

Then there would be a second more advance rig with more precious FK control. This would be the ReadyRig “Salesman, Pupil and Frankie”. It’s a heavier more intense rig but not a mega rig.

  1. Two separate DVDs: So If the basic rig is too long (or tiresome) I will do it as a separate DVD and this more advanced in another DVD. The basic DVD would still be beefy but sell for less. (possbility 60 and 85)

  2. Two Rigs in one DVD: A fast Merlo Type Rig, with skinning and then a second rig building on the technics of the first. So I weight map and skin the first then no need to repeat technics since there is only one tip of skinning.

Heres’ a sample of the arm controller. I just think that it was too complex and though I want to demo it, there needs to be a more basic rig.

Artwork by Julian Love


#9

Alonzo,

this is an interesting diagram. I have been working on translating my Animation:Master IK rigs to use in EI. My biggest hurdle was to move my pole vector target dynamically with the movement of the arm, while being able to achieve arm rotation. Im happy to say that I worked my way through it and have it working perfectly. But I still come away not feeling like turning to EI for character work yet.
How do you get on with using EI for character work? Or do you?
I feel like its not particularly there yet.

Mike Fitz


#10

You want me to be honest or not?

EIAS pays my bills not Maya. That bothers me.

My people need EI and EI has been delivering for 7 years now.

Regardless of what anybody says about it I can do hard body and CA with it very nicely.

Yes I use Maya, but I think only the only full character I did was in Puma Porcupine.

Ok. I will be really honest now, EI can do more things with CA than I am willing to admit It can do. The only problem is development dollars.

So the truth is, I want to move on to Maya but I have no reason to leave EI. It works, pays and keep pulling me back. Not sure if that’s double work or work I wouldn’t get if I used just one or the other.

Anyway, Pole Vector shouldn’t be a problem but designing a rig is always kind of tricky. Generally as you can see with the map, I don’t connect them to the arm, I let them move with the chest.

Happy it’s work for you…Hope that’s a good thing :slight_smile: Sometime I am bothered when I am not sure whether to do something in EI or Maya. That’s the hard decision. Once I did a project in both but Maya eventually won but only because I made a mistake in EI. It wasn’t EI’s fault.

Personally I don’t want to move to Maya without getting out all the EI rig stuff I know into the public.

He’s the stuff I want to do. Some found it.

Fast Basic Rig
FK Spine
IK SPine

ReadyRigs
Robots.
Tails
MotionBuilder rigs.
FBX Dynamics.
Deformer Rigs
Importing Maya blendshapes and Cloth simulations in EI.

Everything I can think of beginner to advanced.

I thin the DVD should be the first 3. The ReadyRigs “Saleman” right will probably be to much work for the user at one time and the DVD too long.


#11

Ok. I will be really honest now, EI can do more things with CA than I am willing to admit It can do.

What I really dont get is... shouldnt it then be the interest of EITG to show users in deep how they
can get the most out of their tools (concerning CA and rigging in this case) ?
They at least should know most about it…“they” did the programming.
Instead users have to wait years for guys like Alonzo good willing enough
to share their knowledge via Tuts.
Is it really enough to throw out a bunch of instruments and
simply hope then that people invest time to find out if and how they work best ?
Obviously most users are not able to achieve that knowhow on their own (including me).
I know, as always its a matter of money and capacity...but teaching people how to use a software properly is an important aspect that shouldnt be underestimated.
Yes…it`s getting much better now thanks to Ians (and others) video tutorials.
Maybe there would be less complaints about lacking CAtools if EITG payed experts
like Alonzo some bucks to show users how their tools work in real jobs ?

Best
Tom


#12

Excellent post Tom.

Maya isn’t doing so well because it’s such a Great app. A lot of CG people despise maya and zbrush interface and the sacrifice it would take to learn all the tools, technics and theory on your own is profusely wasteful. What good is an app if you can’t learn it. Maya is doing well because the training is so great and their user do great artwork with it. However, the training has become so ample, that if you are at least tolerant, great art can create with Maya and ZBrusht.

I have been trying to learn PowerAnimator Alias modeler over 15 years. Unless you have real jobs with this stuff, you don’t really know it and that’s how the pros learn it. It only makes sense to learn it from the pros during a direct seminar or video.

Right now, I’m studying VFX and screening, I feel sorry for anyone who thinks they can learn green screen on their own. They won’t even know what they don’t know. It’s only ignorance why they think they know it. Sorry if that sounds harsh but screw up greenscreen budget and you will think that’s baby talk to how a client will rip you one. LOL. And That’s the business!! I would do the same if my ass was on the line.

“EI Development” investing in their users? That’s a can a worms. Some people will cut off their nose to spite their face. I nearly stopped beta testing all together because of the “counter-productiveness” projected my way. Truly you don’t miss your water until the well runs dry. I don’t doubt that this is the same problem with Ramjac.

About Rigging,
Julian Love did some of the most amazing rigs I have ever seen in EI. He paved the way. He left the “Mr. Willis” project. I only recently figured out some of the things he did. He and Keith Lango both worked at Idea and Keith and Julian both perfected EI CA rigging and CA a decade ago. But now they are both gone. (Keith feature film and Julian use to be Blizzard) I am glad they left a legacy, remnants or even bread crumbs to follow.
My point is to make sure what was discovered is not lost.

About Animator,

It is set up so that developers can extend it’s tools and feature with very intense plug ins. All of EI plug-in are class-A. However, I don’t know why ElectricImage have such POOR DIPLOMATIC SKILLS. They don’t know how to talk to each other. They DON"T COMMUNICATE. The “respect level” with Development is obvious by the many failed breakdowns in communication between users and plug-in authors.

HONESTLY The reason why Jens and Matt. (XP AND EI) GOT TOGETHER IN THE FIRST PLACE IS BECAUSE I LIASONED the relationship and the original communication when I was starving in the bronx after 911 and was about to leave NYC. I was going hungry in the midst shouting emails between the two but at that time, GREAT THINGS became of it.

They aught to get off their high horse and put the community infront of themselves. No way should EI and RAMJAC break ties. For what? They have better solutions on their own without each other?

Anyway, Brian gets it, and all the others who still create plugs that extend EI function.
Before EI pays me for my “school of hard knocks” rigging, they should have been more accommodating to people who at least bring more tools to the app. Then how to use those tools should be second tier but also paramount.

I don’t have the cash now, but I would have liked to developed a rig tool plug for EI ages with a nice programmer or even an XP script writer.


#13

First off, Tom, great post. You hit the nail on the head. I wish someone who programmed EI would put down a couple things about rigging ins and outs for us to work from.

2ndly… Alonzo
where is this rig? Was it ever made public, I’d like to take a look at it, under it, around it, all that :slight_smile:
"Julian Love did some of the most amazing rigs I have ever seen in EI. He paved the way. He left the “Mr. Willis” project. I only recently figured out some of the things he did. He and Keith Lango both worked at Idea and Keith and Julian both perfected EI CA rigging and CA a decade ago. But now they are both gone. (Keith feature film and Julian use to be Blizzard) I am glad they left a legacy, remnants or even bread crumbs to follow. "

Mike Fitz


#14

Thanks Alonzo for keep using EIAS otherwise who else will have the guts to make some video tutorials. Now is in the hand of EITG to follow your steps.
Edgard


#15

Hey Mike,

Something I didn’t address that Tom mention in the first post, bout the programmer being abreast in the tools. Actually, I don’t mind that they arent. It would be great if we had a CA/programmer but still I don’t think it’s necessary. I do think Tomas will be a big help for development, but I never felt Matt had to be a CA person because rigging is an art form by itself. Making constraints and structuring them in the kinesiology of a character are too completely different things. Just like I don’t have to know how to program constraints to use them.

Anyway, I think I will toot my own horn. When EI users have problems with the rigs and sent it to EI for troubleshooting, He often sends it to me anyhow. :eek: :arteest:
I usually fix up by hand or advice them. It not usually an EI problem. It’s user unfamiliarity. So it’s a good opportunity to sell them my rig DVD. I
Some users have given me thank you donations if it’s a lot of work.


#16

I’d say you are a major asset to the EI community with your tutorials Alonzo! no need to tute your horn my way :slight_smile:
so, is this rig by Julian Love public? I’d really like to take a look at it, and I dont remember it being on any of the EI discs over the years?

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com


#17

Thanks. It use to be on my site, and it has been on EI CD for years. I don’t think the skinning works because of the FBX or upgrades.

The salesman man rig is very similar. BTW, the Deformer DVD is still selling and shipping to UK today. Thanks.

I will post Mr. Willis when I come across it.


#18

Alonzo, dont worry about posting it for me, I found the Mr.Willis file on one of my old ei cds (version 5).

Not exactly what I was expecting to see… but still informative!


#19

Right. Poor Mr. Willis, he gets no shine or promo and he’s been a great resource for years.

I remember looking at Disney’s Dinosaur BTS featurette years ago, during an EI beta cycle and wondering what those Icon Control were in the SoftImage rig of the Dinos.

I requested that EI add them to their rigging tools. Little did I know that they were animation controls. Then i saw Julian Mr. Willis a couple of days later. It was an revelation :slight_smile:

So what were you expecting to see from the project? Anything I can add to my new DVD?


#20

Well, Im not sure exactly what I wanted from the Mr.Willis, other then to see something that I had not thought of myself.

The animation control icons dont really make things ezier in EI for CA, other then to make it look somewhat in synch with industry standards.

But Alonzo, dont get me wrong. I dont feel as though Im in a position to suggest additions to your CD content. There is one thing that really irks me (about EI), coming from Rigging pefection software such as Animation:master (despite its other many limitations) I cant stand the bone flipping that happens when a total character is rotated in EI 3d space. I suppose you can avoid this by parenting everything to a null that doesnt move.