How to Paint game textures


#81

what a good helpful thread this is. i’ve spent the last hour or so reading it and looking at all the links.

I’m new to the whole game art genre, and i need to learn it fast. i’m currently doing my honours project at university which consists of creating game characters. i’m fine with the modelling, but when it comes to texturing, i’m struggling.

my current uni task at the moment is to make a self portrait in my honours project medium ( game art ). i have so far modelled my head using a photograph refrences of the front and side of my head. i want to use these same photos as my textures. how can i blend them together to fit my unwrapped head mesh? i’ve seen a tutorial for this technique somewhere, but godknows where. does anyone know about this tutorial?

thanks:)


#82

@ Shiska ans sysop

I’ve ren into that problem my self.

the thing is, if you have to faces and than move one of the vertexetes over on top of the symetrical one, to make a mirrored uvw, you’ll end up with a mirrored face. now, if you detache the vertexes that are comun to the faces, making them two independent faces, the game engine will read them as separate.

so… you should first of all, reset x-form everythink. meke sure they are ok, and them uvw them. dont do it on one side and then mirror, it will probably not work. do it for both sides separatly, but lay them in the same uvw place.
hope this helps in any way.

cheers,

Kazuya Mochu


#83

HYPER: I have a question for you

how do you decide what color to use for shadows/highlights? im tired of all the tuts that dont really explain how to paint shadows/highlights in color. every time i pick these colors its “off”. i realize there is alot going on with reflected light but overall there should be some RULES that one can follow to picking correct shadow colors and highlight colors. colors that really POP in an engine.

for shadows do you increase saturation and decrease intensity?

thanks


#84

Originally posted by Kazuya Mochu
[B]@ Shiska ans sysop

I’ve ren into that problem my self.

the thing is, if you have to faces and than move one of the vertexetes over on top of the symetrical one, to make a mirrored uvw, you’ll end up with a mirrored face. now, if you detache the vertexes that are comun to the faces, making them two independent faces, the game engine will read them as separate.

so… you should first of all, reset x-form everythink. meke sure they are ok, and them uvw them. dont do it on one side and then mirror, it will probably not work. do it for both sides separatly, but lay them in the same uvw place.
hope this helps in any way.

cheers,

Kazuya Mochu [/B]

Thanks, Kazuya. Let me make sure I’m understanding correctly.

If I were to model a figure, duplicate and flip the mesh, then UV each component seperately and combine the components together, I can match the UV’s for both sides, and the symmetrical parts won’t have inversed bumpmaps?


#85

D’oheth. Double posted. Solly.


#86

ok, there are two things I’ve worked with: characters and scenary.

on the characters, the model would be exactly in the middle of the view port. so if some of the faces overlaped on the uvws, the code would find de normal and adjust the lighting to correct the bump.

this should be done in tangent space, rather than object space, as I’ve been told.

now, scenerie… imagine a wall
made by 4 poligons:


|||

you should not select the vertexes on the left and move them over to the ones on the right. you should select the 2 poligons on the left, detache then, and then move them over the same texture space.


now, as for separated uvws… I don’t think that it is very important. I searched for aditional information, and aparentlly, it’s generaly work for the coders, rather than artists.

the coder sees if it’s mirrored or not, and correct’s it, as I’ve said before. but most of this problems only work if you have you own engine… that’s way most softwares don’t allow overlapping on automatic uvws…

hope this helps

Kazuya Mochu


#87

Ancient-Pig, awesome tutorial, if you don’t mind me asking what technique and steps did you take to unwrap the arm in such a way. It almost looks as if you unfolded a page that was folded in the middle. When i unwrap i always have to detach and unflatten both the bottom and the top. You seem to have done both with one unfold? Do you or anyone who understands mind sharing the techniques? Thanks.


#88

Boxsmiley, check out his tutorial on the subject. The arm is probably a few planar projections stitched together. Some people use a cylinder projection for the arm, then cut/paste/stitch UV faces, then planars for the hands and stitch them together.
http://ancient-pig.com/tutorials/tutorial1/tutorial.htm


#89

Thats exactly what the arm is… about 3 planar projections, planning that the seam run from the wrist to the armpit.

Im glad you like the tutorial. My techniques have sure changed since Ive been working… Id like to update that one sometime in the future here, along with the work on my page… old old old

Anyhow, glad you got use out of it man. Ill let you know when I update that tut.


#90

Posm, Ancient-Pig, thanks for sharing guys. Definitely let us know when you update. Thanks.


#91

Goodday everyone,
I have some questions about texturing for game art. If anyone would like to take a swing at it.
These are things that Im not really clear on, and wanted to learn.

1.What is the most common used file format for texture maps?

2.Why do people use Targa’s, and what is the difference between 24bit and 32bit?

3.What is the average sizes, number of?? etc. 1-512x512, or 4-256x256, or 1-1024x1024??

4.What is the most common texture maps used in current game engines? etc. alpha, bump, color, diffuse, normals???

5.Will there ever be a “God Sent” button in Maya to unfold and flatten UV’s from a selected edge seam?? :slight_smile:

Thanks for everyones time…
cheers


#92
  1. think uve answered that in 2) lol depends really u have dds etc as well

2)lossless and robust format 24=8bits per channel =3 channels ie rgb 32bit=4 channels ie RGBA basicaly 32bit tga’s ave alpha channels

  1. only god himself knows depends on the platform and the game xbox are 512 ps2 are 256 i think but dont quote me

  2. color and alpha, bump and spec being used more frequently than before normals still quite rare

  3. dunno


#93

Thank God for Dodge n’ Burn.


#94

Dunbar,

All of this largely depends on the platform the game is going to run on - which I’m sure you’ll appreciate. It also depends on if the game is simultaneously developed for more than one platform.

At the moment, console games dont push textures any further or higher than a 512 texture map with one alpha chanel (of course file format = tga if it has an alpha). The smallest textures used for modern day consoles (to my knowledge) are 64x64. Of course, a game engine will run 4 64x64 texture maps faster than it will run one 256 on a model. Also, PS2 doesnt like 512x256 texture maps, whereas xbox and gamecube have no real problems with them.
.
PC games are different altogether as there are alot less restrictions when it comes to textures these days. Biggest map I’ve ever worked on for something PC related was 2048 - the newest ‘wave’ of PC games will support this size.

Although I honestly know nothing about it, I’d say PS3 will more than likely support 1024 texture maps.

Seen as though ive just woken up I hope this is some help or at least makes some sense!

Cheers,

Nathan.


#95

Dunbar:

It depends on the engine. Console games use proprietary formats typically. Unreal Tournament games use UTX, Quake and Doom 3 engine games use JPEG and Targa, just for an example. If you browse the directories of your favorite Sega Dreamcast games, you’ll find PVR (power vr) files. To make a joke, I’ll just say that the most common used file format for texture maps is PSD… After all, that’s where they come from anyway, right?

Targas are used because they are lossless files. The 32-bit targa includes an alpha channel which allows you to create transparencies. Some have said that a compressed format such as JPEG is better because the file size is smaller and therefor it would use less video memory, but that is wrong. A pixel is a pixel, and when a graphic is called, it doesn’t matter if it’s 20KB or 200KB in file size, it will still take the same amount of video memory, and if the engine is robust enough, it will call the file and discard of it when needed, so you don’t have to worry about temporaries flooding the river, so to speak.

The average sizes, as I believe have been mentioned, are multiples of 2 or 32. I would say the most common resolution used in console games today is 256x256. You use the size according to what you’re doing… For example, if you were making a palm tree, you would use a repeating texture, probably 256x256 for the trunk, a 32x32 texture for the dates at the top of the tree, and a 512x512 targa with an alpha channel with multiple leaves on the map for the leaves. (Alternatively, you could use one single map, which is probably the best way to go.)

Diffuse is the most common texture map. Alpha is second, normals would be third. I can’t think of many games using diffuse off the top of my head, as it would be a waste for the renderer to process something you could calculate in advance. Remember, every layer you add to a shader, adds multiplicatively to the render time… 1 layer for example could take 1ns, 4 layers could take 4ns… 4 layers, 2 of which are special formats, perhaps an environmental map and an alpha transparent, could take a considerable amount of more render time to complete the frame.

Edit: Oh and Dunbar, since you’re asking these questions, I think it’s obvious to assume that you’re just getting interested in becoming a part of the industry right now, so it will most likely take you years to get to the level you want to get to. Let me make this suggestion: Work ahead, meaning… Some people can make great textures that are as tiny as can be, but their work doesn’t look as great on a larger scale. In four years, we’ll be using 2048x2048 as the standard texture for every game, regardless of the item the texture will be used on. Every shader will have many layers and it will look more like the material browser in 3D studio max, than a shader script. Familiarize yourself with this sort of stuff, and you’ll be set for the future. A lot of people will have a hard time converting to the newer, more detailed order of things. “But why would a character need to have a 2048x2048 texture for his pocket watch?” Well, why not? I can tell you one thing about the future of games… Detail is always added. Game systems typically have a five year life cycle, and we are nearing the end of the current crop of systems. The same goes for computer graphics, every five years there is a massive exodus to the new standards. 2004 will bring DOOM 3 and Half Life 2, a dramatic leap forward in comparison to the current PC games available… These games will look like absolute kindergarten material in just four years, so think ahead, my friend.


#96

nice one matt. very informative and good insight of things ahead. 2048x2048 texture maps…hmm…those are gonna be great for close ups :stuck_out_tongue:


#97

matt: doom has jpeg tech? wow… thats gotta be the first game i’ve heard of that supports it, unless im really blind :slight_smile: the file size difference might not matter much in terms of video memory, but processing time should be better. If every file gets cut down to 10% thats gotta make a decent difference, correct me if im wrong though.

cool thread though guys! lots of good info here.


#98

quake3 has been supporting jpegs for a long long time. where did you listen jeffo? :wink:


#99

haha damn, thats cool! :slight_smile:


#100

Thanks! commy, nattnewman, Matt
Sorry for the delay in a reply, Im still over seas in the middleeast so between working all the time, and a limited access, I have times of silents in my post :slight_smile:

Thank you for all the great information, it has been a great help, and some great info, exactly what I was looking for. Not to far off topic is my new project, which I started a thread here,

I started this small simple model so I can learn how to make and use the Alpha map, using Maya and Photoshop.

So if anyone could hop onto that thread and shed some light for a good basic lesson on alpha maps, that would be GREAT!
and would add much to the cgtalk.com community. :slight_smile:

So this is my next step in learning the world of texturing…

cheers again for the info and insight on things to come, and good advice for anyone…

takecare
Dunbar