How to make C4D more competitive?!


#1

Hi all,

This topic may have been worn out on other threads but I had an experience yesterday that I wanted to share.

I had an interview for a job as a Multimedia Designer with a large company who is growing strong in graphics production and who are using a lot of After Effects for motion graphics along with Flash, Web dev, and a bit of everything else, including print. They currently use C4D 8.5 (I believe. I know it’s pre-9x). The job description listed Cinema and Lightwave as tools to know, but at the interview I learned that they are just now getting Lightwave which they learned more about at SIGGRAPH. I emailed one of the designers after the interview, (which seemed to go well, so please wish me luck…) and asked about their interest in Lightwave and why they wanted to add it to their toolset, and I got this reply:

“Lightwave was an interest for various reasons… Awesome purchase price versus the upgrade to Cinema4D 9 plus it came with Vue Infinite, and such accolades for the TV and broadcast industry, as well as some great features not in the version of Cinema that we have. Some of our other teams within _______ have it too, nobody has Cinema4D for some reason.”

I haven’t followed up regarding the features he was talking about but I found it a bit disheartening since I am really becoming fond of C4D. In fact the reason that I personally got Lightwave way back before C4D was the price. If Maxon is reading this then I am adding my voice to the already voiced request, “please lower your price (including upgrades!), flood the market, let people know first hand what a great product you have and enjoy more volume sales”

Am I making an accurate statement? Am I missing something else? Other comments/experiences? I know this issue has been brought up but I am trying to present a clear example and a clear suggestion.:shrug:


#2

if a company really makes price the prime reason for the software-seat (within the ranges 3Dapps are in these days), how much do they want to pay you as operator then?

Actually a forward thinking company these days would have licences of all the common 3dapps out there and you would pic the app you can deliver with fastest for a given project–
when there is nothing to do you would be made to learn the apps you dont already know so the company is more competitive–
I wont participate in any app war thread here, just posting because this sounds soooo lame an answer to me.


#3

For all intent and purposes, you pay for what you get. When major software companies lower their prices dramatically, it usually ends being some kind of a bait tactic.

Case in point, XSI foundation. Great two years ago, when you could get in on 3D-emocracy for under $500. But now, some years later, you have to pay over 50% of your initial purchase price to upgrade your initially low-priced foundation version.

Cinema 4D is solid and feature rich. Currently the price point of all the modules, and upgrades is very balanced. If they cut the prices, then there would surely be some compromise in quality and quantity of the current pace of updates. I for one, do not want to see that.

Currently, the 3DSMAX upgrades are very poor. So it kind of goes, you get what you pay for.


#4

Please, no app war!..

Olli
You make some good points, and I haven’t gotten to the point of discussing salary with these guys. Unfortunately, budgets are everywhere and deep pockets are not. You paint a nice picture and if you are hiring then let me know!:cool:

To be honest, I don’t think they gave a lame answer, but a bit of an alarming one. In fact, I myself bought the upgrade to Lightwave 9 (even though I haven’t been using it much at all) because they bundled Vue Infinite for a TOTAL of $395! I think if Maxon could do something like that then they could get a stronger hold in a market that they deserve to shine in.

Continuumx
Good points also. I just hate to see this shop switch to Lightwave over C4D. Maybe they need “a talkin’ to.” But, the bottom line talks and we can’t ignore that…


#5

Pricing is always a dicey issue, but from what little Maxon has said they are doing well financially, and Cinema is slowly but surely increasing its market share and recognition in various industries. I’d much rather see them continue on their steady path than engage in a risky price war.

Newtek’s slew of promotions smacks a bit of desperation, but I have no idea what their actual situation is.


#6

Good luck :smiley:

It seems that most of the reasons given above, other than price, are just different ways of stating the fact that LW has a very strong established broadcast history. The features ‘missing’ are probably rectified by CinemaR9.5, there’s nothing I’m aware of that obviously sticks out. It’s funny (and obviously not a scientific sample), but the other forum I hang around in is the Luxology one, filled with disgruntled LW and ex-LW users, who are very worried about the state of LW currently - ‘a hut turned into a palace by building on extensions’ is the sort of description given, and modelling and stability are particularly worrying them. Obviously the renderer is fine - it’s just a shame they’ve decided to play the price game.

Cheers - C


#7

seems like a very dangerous move to lower the price that much like newtek does. that indicates a certain desperation, indeed. what about softimage? they have been longer in this budget game - did it pay off for them? after all, someone who puts an emphasis on license fee surely isn’t likely to upgrade/pay for support or shell out the cash for the “real thing”?


#8

It looks like Softimage’s little game is to offer a very competitive entry price, but then charge nearly full price for upgrades: 80% of purchase price the last go-round.


#9

I’m constantly surprised at the highish price that Maxon maintains in the ongoing climate of cutthroat pricing. Seems like that can only mean that sales remain brisk and that people are switching from LW to Cinema more than the other way around.


#10

I tell you these price wars are a drag.

AdamT & GIJoe, I know what you mean about the desperation. Newtek has had to recover from a big disaster and has been giving out free updates for a couple of years now. It may be a plan to build dependency and then a higher upgrade price, but I guess that is what Maxon has done as well.:deal:

Again, my intent is not to build discontent but I suppose to lament the fact that I may not be able to really use Cinema at my new job (If they want to hire me. I know it’s a selfish motivation - and thanks Chrissyboy for the luck) AND for Cinema to remain competitive overall.

I have been going through the new tutorials that came with 9.5 (it arrived yesterday!!!) and I am SO impressed with the new features and workflow, especially after wrestling with Maya. Really nice stuff, which just points up the loss even more. Perhaps it’s up to me to champion the cause when I have the chance. Of course I can just keep using it for my own work…:shrug:

Yep. That’s what I did!:cool:


#11

Still, that upgrade price is not much higher than the upgrade price for Cinema 9.5. If price is the primary criterion, XSI comes out far ahead of Cinema, so the fact that Maxon can continue to keep their prices where they are says a lot about Cinema’s assets, or else Maxon would have been forced to drop their prices to keep their sales moving.


#12

All i know is the sales situation is solid (which means CINEMA is expanding) and the money they get are reinvested in the development (and it shows). I’m happy this way.


#13

True, it’s not that much more than the 9.5 upgrade price, but over a couple or three years XSI’s supposed price advantage will evaporate. That’s not to say it isn’t a good deal, because it is even with the upgrade pricing.


#14

Well, the main reason that XSI has a price advantage is that it’s far more robust in many ways than Cinema, but I know that I’ll be preaching to the choir when I mention that Maxon’s been closing the gap, so
all they have to do is keep up the pace :slight_smile:


#15

Hallelujah and Amen!!
Praise Maxon!!

Amazing Grace in the key of C? And a 1, and a 2…


#16

when ever you talk to people about 3d work they often ask " Oooh yeah what software do you use"? to which i reply… “Cinema 4D of course”… and generally i can see the dissappointment on their face…and then the response comes " Not Maya or Lightwave then"?
What can you do…unfortunately you meet people all the time that still buy software on it was used in this movie or that movie therefore its better for my needs, or youre somehow using a lesser app because its less famous…
for me i’m quite secure in my choices of software but it is rather frustrating that generally after telling them what i can do in c4d far quicker and easier and achievable than in the famous software they simply round it off with “Mmmm yeah i suppose C4D has come some ways in recent years”…but its not Lightwave or Maya which is what they really mean…

i’m given to the opinion that when encountering this sort of thing as in your case in say and interview situation you can resign yourself to various facts.

  1. they made their software choice and it may not fit you as a candidate
  2. you can mention the principles are similar with any 3d package
  3. explain why you use c4d if given the opportunity
  4. explain you are flexible and bring the advantage of knowing c4d to their company when working with others they may encounter in the future
  5. you may not be the best suited candidate for that particular job…this is not to be offensive btw.
  6. show them your work which excels and they are likely to want you anyway…

now i’m no recruitment expert…and far from it…hopefully some of what i’ve said makes a little sense.
i’m not sure what you as a candidate can do about the interviewers opinions on software usage…even more so if its through an agency as they usual are ticking boxes to fit candidates to jobs…i think in a few years time though you’re going to encounter this less often.

maxon pricing…i’ve said my piece about this before and i’m not going there today.

i do think maxon has a damn good offer at the moment when comparing to other companies offers though.

and finally good luck with the job…and if you don’t get it…don’t look back…move on to the next one.


#17

Xsi foundation is sold up-front without any future upgrades to next version. It is sold with the ability to upgrade to the next higher current version with the foundation price deducted.
The fact that Xsi offered a limited upgrade from 4 to 5 Foundation is just a little nice bit of public relations.


#18

If I were in your situation, and I were the person that would primarily be doing this work and the software I prefer to use is C4D, you bet I am going to prepare a proposal for why C4D is the program to use and the reasons that dollars x and y are good to be spent on this program because of w and z.

I hope success to your compaign! I think you are really in a good situation here, because it sounds like you have a good amount of experience with C4D so you should have no problem with possibly showing to the team things that you really like about the program and can help them in their work over the other program if that happens to be true!

:slight_smile:


#19

Actually, in this particular case my experience with Lightwave gives me an advantage. And Maya, for name dropping purposes, as I have to admit! :blush:
The problem is that I like C4D much better and I would prefer to avoid Lightwave if I had the choice. C4D is just a better app IMHO. (I think we can all go on about that. Sorry, no flame intended…) And they have been using C4D but the upgrade price is the issue.

I’m also learning not to expect too much from an interview and am adopting a patient attitude towards the job hunt in general. So your last comment is welcome advice.

Well put. I’m pretty new to C4D but I’m working on it…

I think these last comments bring me back to my original intention, and that is how can we best promote C4D given the price wars. I agree that it is well worth the money in time saved from workflow alone, and in this case anyway Character Animation is not an issue. I guess we just have to prove it through our work…


#20

Help me out here! C4D is clearly a “popular” application among hobbyist AND architecture, right? It seems to me that the problem is on Maxon. CA is what the other larger studios are using the apps for, right? C4D’s CA is behind and that has been established. It also seems to me that Maxon has been continuously informed of this short-coming. Let’s hope that R10 will reveal a vastly improved CA system.

Richard