How do you use messiah for rendering?

#40

Iā€™m busy trying to pay my bills.

#41

ā€¦while looking at CGTalk :wink:

#42

thats my commic relief. :slight_smile:

#43

Yes, I should have said, Weggā€™s cactus render is very nice too. How did you do the spines?

Also, back on the renderer, I would love to see Fprime-like capability. It seems that something similar will be in Modo 201. After using Fprime, hitting F9 to test render seems tedious.

Alex

#44

I agree. Iā€™m fairly certain that was what the render ā€œlockā€ was supposed to do.

Whats really fun is the fact that you can actually change things about your model WHILE its rendering. So I know it can be done. . .

Try it. . .

Plop a sphere in your scene and while its rendering change its color. It will change in the render.

The foundation is there. . . they just have to make it work I guess.

#45

The foundation is there. . . they just have to make it work I guess.

Amen to that :wink:

#46

Thats my story.

The few times Iā€™ve tried rendering demo scenes in Messiah I would generally get a crash or a lockup. Occassionally I would be rewarded with an incredibly slow render.

I put it down to my ā€œfeebleā€ machine (1.6Ghz P4, 1Gig of RAM) and Messiahā€™s renderer being a work in progress.

#47

My sentiments EXACTLY!
Nothing like building a rocket ship that no one can fly because there isnā€™t a sufficient user manual except in the minds of a few scientistsā€¦

#48

You know the funny thing is that messiah led in the video tutorial/manual WITH
your software package in 1999.
Before then, Maya, LW, Max and others all had static manuals and third party training DVDs.

Fred Tepper blew the doors off dull manuals with injokes, animated gifs and mini videos.
messiah wasnā€™t hard to lean and the learning curve was eased. Most everyone who learned messiah:animate was on the same page of proficency with the software.

But of late, the render has individual levels of learning. There is no set standard of learning when it comes to the render. A lot of happy accidents to a few godlings (Wegg, Thomas, Taron, Tony, etc)

It was said that Taron would have new tutorials on the render a few weeks after Siggraph.
its March 2006ā€¦ not one training video.

#49

I have to say, Jules4001ā€¦
Itā€™s because of your tutorials, along with Joe Cosmanā€™s and Weggs that some of us can hang on this rocket ship at all.

Thanks!!! :thumbsup:

#50

I think that if you look back at the development of messiah it lead in the documentation war and revolutionized the industry. Fred I am afraid is obviously very busy, after all look at how heā€™s been using messiah in his own projects. I hope if its not him that does the next round of documentation then someone else does with the same effort and energy fred has.

My only wish with the time and effort that Messiah puts into its development is that they could quickly create a camtasia video as to how it works. Even if it means Taron opening up the Neckling project and walking people through it, I think it would go miles to not only sell the software but allow new users to quickly use it. Look at Luxology, they donā€™t even have to write down features, they show them in a video!!

In Taronā€™s defense, heā€™s one artist, and it would go miles that once you finish a project do a little walkthrough camtasia video and show us how you got there. The Zbrush Community does this and look how much it helps them.

Whoā€™s with me!!

#51

Thanks for the complimentā€¦

The funny thing is that at all the shows: Siggraph and Zbrush events.
Everyone is hanging on this TARON;s every word and clicks. You should see the audience.
Yet it seem that kind of fame is lost at PMG, they close this guy in a closet to make new RENDER stuff that only he can make and use.

Face it, he is known more for Zbrush than messiah and HE WORKS FOR PMG!

I know I have said time and time gain, that he needs to stop whatever he doing ā€¦
take 2 days and bang out a few video tutorials in the vein of Fred Teppers (Gary or mine).

The eyeball and Anisotrophic nodes are his babies and really only he knows how to get them
working 90% of the time, everyone else its a science experiment.

#52

godlings? Gimme a break :rolleyes:

Come on guys, donā€™t fool yourself too much: After you can use the tool, it has still to be worthwhile, no?
Most people who did great work with the renderer gave it up after finding more and more serious flaws, stopping their stride. If this wouldnā€™t have been the case, they would have created a much greater suction toward messiah and we would see tons of renders from starters to pros.
But the people who are able to use one renderer are as able to use another in most cases, so why bother with messiah which lacks so many features a renderer needs today, has so many flaws and which shows such slow development?

I only feel sorry for the developers who are trapped with a software with great potential and a team too small to really get it airborne. So far it has been a classical deadlock situation. :shrug:

Cheers :bowdown:

#53

man, you canā€™t take a compliment.

Hey Thomas You coded plugins for messiah, that would qualify as a godling and a half :twisted: :scream:

Anyway, its true I think they, too , are in trapped a development ditch.

#54

Itā€™s actually very simple and Taronā€™s ā€œinterestingā€ little teases aside, the developers apparently have themselves involved with other non messiah development gigs that pay the bills and they get around to working on messiah when they find the time.

#55

the developers apparently have themselves involved with other non messiah development gigs that pay the bills and they get around to working on messiah when they find the time.

Tama, are you part of the development team? and if not what grounds is your assertion drawn?

#56

(Awwwwwhhhhā€¦rrrrrhhhā€¦kaboom!) A part of me just has exploded. :rolleyes:
ā€¦nope, not that part. :deal:

Thomas, please, give us some more time without you! Otherwise we really will have a too hard time coming over that hump of shite, piled up by your somewhat capsized observations! Without a cup of coffee, yet, Iā€™m ready to smack you, really. Of course, we have our challenges, but considering what is coming out right now, because finally our release candidate is ready to roll out, we should demonstrate that even the small team we are can and will show all them monsters out there whatā€™s possible and whatā€™s going to happen next in the rendering world. Weā€™ve developed far more within the last two years then the Maya rendering department in the last 10 years, so I hear. And thatā€™s just a random example. Youā€™re one of them fools, whoā€™ve been clubbing seal-babies for the longest time and havnā€™t noticed that we survived you so far and we have become a mature animal. I wouldnā€™t say fully grown, only because I know what weā€™re about to become. I know the missing things and those are very little in terms of rendering.

Anyway, funny enough, last night Iā€™ve made a camtasia recording of an introduction into our rendering: ā€œrendering - Getting Startedā€. Iā€™m planning on not editing the thing at all, except trimming the start and the end, but maybe doing a bunch of zooms into focus areas. This way itā€™s clearly natural, even if at 15 fps.
Iā€™m planning on making a whole bunch of these sessions to cover all the basics and even go into the early advanced stages of using the renderer. I just wanted to make sure that Iā€™m using the exact same version you will be using now! And I do! And you will! :slight_smile:

And, oh, f u thomas, really. Iā€™ll apologize, once Iā€™m really awake, but for now, this is the most sincere - even if somewhat immature- thing I can possible say deep from the bottom of my heart!

#57

clearing the Thomas bashingā€¦

Really?!

Weā€™ve developed far more within the last two years then the Maya rendering department in the last 10 years, so I hear.

Bold statement considering no one duplicated Paint FX yet and Maya was released in 1998.
Then the render layers for multiple passes.
And shader library ā€¦ wouldnā€™t have said this.

Anyway, funny enough, last night Iā€™ve made a camtasia recording of an introduction into our rendering: ā€œrendering - Getting Startedā€. Iā€™m planning on not editing the thing at all, except trimming the start and the end, but maybe doing a bunch of zooms into focus areas. This way itā€™s clearly natural, even if at 15 fps.
Iā€™m planning on making a whole bunch of these sessions to cover all the basics and even go into the early advanced stages of using the renderer. I just wanted to make sure that Iā€™m using the exact same version you will be using now! And I do! And you will! :slight_smile:

Okay the clock is ticking ā€¦ you have a tutorial for messiah on rendering.
You know you have to release it soon that you said you have one.

We the users await.

#58

(Awwwwwhhhhā€¦rrrrrhhhā€¦kaboom!) A part of me just has exploded.
ā€¦nope, not that part.

Thomas, please, give us some more time without you! Otherwise we really will have a too hard time coming over that hump of shite, piled up by your somewhat capsized observations! Without a cup of coffee, yet, Iā€™m ready to smack you, really. Of course, we have our challenges, but considering what is coming out right now, because finally our release candidate is ready to roll out, we should demonstrate that even the small team we are can and will show all them monsters out there whatā€™s possible and whatā€™s going to happen next in the rendering world. Weā€™ve developed far more within the last two years then the Maya rendering department in the last 10 years, so I hear. And thatā€™s just a random example. Youā€™re one of them fools, whoā€™ve been clubbing seal-babies for the longest time and havnā€™t noticed that we survived you so far and we have become a mature animal. I wouldnā€™t say fully grown, only because I know what weā€™re about to become. I know the missing things and those are very little in terms of rendering.

Anyway, funny enough, last night Iā€™ve made a camtasia recording of an introduction into our rendering: ā€œrendering - Getting Startedā€. Iā€™m planning on not editing the thing at all, except trimming the start and the end, but maybe doing a bunch of zooms into focus areas. This way itā€™s clearly natural, even if at 15 fps.
Iā€™m planning on making a whole bunch of these sessions to cover all the basics and even go into the early advanced stages of using the renderer. I just wanted to make sure that Iā€™m using the exact same version you will be using now! And I do! And you will!

And, oh, f u thomas, really. Iā€™ll apologize, once Iā€™m really awake, but for now, this is the most sincere - even if somewhat immature- thing I can possible say deep from the bottom of my heart!

Wow, now that was a mature reply. :bowdown:

You have a way with words that just impresses me. All those pointed and subtle, humorous descriptions of how much I suck lately.
Maybe I should keep them and create some kind of special collectors edition?
Would you write a foreword and maybe sign the first 500 printed specimen?

Honestly, you are free to make a fool of yourself anytime you wish.
I couldnā€™t care less for your hysterical opinion.

Wegg, ready to close the thread?

Over and out, :stuck_out_tongue:

#59

I thought I said Maya rendering and not Maya-ā€œplenty of funny and great tools around a renderer that has long seized competing with all the actually brilliant renderers out thereā€. Yes, sure, Paint FX is really cute, but has nothing to do with the render engine, really.

But I must say, I apologize for making bold statements that compare us to anyone else, because itā€™s something I have no right to do. I hate this kind of thing, but I love the situation that thereā€™s a house with a very large team like Mayaā€™s and their internal development for showing what the teamsize does to such a fundamental part to a program. It only means that theyā€™ve got resources to add a great many little interesting things to try saving the lack of power of their rendering core. We on the other hand are a small team with a very powerful rendering core, constantly expanding the functionality of it and always on our toes to make sure it does itā€™s thing right. On top of that we are adding our fancy little things around it, knowing exactly whatā€™s going on inside the core and even adjusting it, if we see something greater could be happening. Our lack has far more been the frontend (interface) to it, although all the access is there, it simply never looked fancy and a part of it may never do look fancy ever. The one big thing we need is greater visual interface elements for prettier feedback. The one big thing we do have is really fast feedback from the renderer itself.

Anyway, I still and again apologize for making comparisons. You might know what my point was and if not, it was about teamsize as opposed to opportunities. We are highly flexible to adjust, expand and direct the rendering in every of its stages. Every good programmer knows what a privilege that is and we really do know. The challenge appeared to have been the time it took to get up on our feed, but it turns out that even that is happening at an extremely competetive speed.

The time has come, that we will really need everyoneā€™s help to show the power we have put into messiah and Iā€™m doing everything I can to give you the knowledge on how to do just that! :arteest:

And, oh, thatā€™s not ā€œnews from pmGā€, really. We will make announcements, when itā€™s all ready to roll for all of you!:thumbsup: