horse

#101 
    I don't have any intention of creating any more threads at this time - maybe in the future when I have more to show.

    What did you decide with regard to the horse's size? Are you still intent on building a Percheron sized horse? For realism, I strongly advise against it.
    
    I'ver recently been reading Ann Hyland's works, (they are excellent) and she does a lot of research, from many sources. By the way, for a horse in Roman times, I'd highly recommend her works. I haven't read her medieval books yet.
    
    With regard to size, read the reviews on this book by her: [b][The Medieval Warhorse](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0938289845/sr=1-1/qid=1147195278/ref=sr_1_1/104-9947607-2748737?%5Fencoding=UTF8) [/b]
    
    These are her books:
    
    [[b]Horse in the Middle Ages [/b]](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0750910674/qid=1147196580/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)
   
   [b][Equus: the Horse in Roman Times](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0713462604/sr=1-5/qid=1147195278/ref=sr_1_5/104-9947607-2748737?%5Fencoding=UTF8): [/b]this book is excellent!
    [b][Training the Roman Cavalry: From Arrian's Ars Tactica](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0862999847/qid=1147197201/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155): [/b]another excellent book! 
    [b]
[The Warhorse 1250-1600](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0750907460/sr=1-9/qid=1147195278/ref=sr_1_9/104-9947607-2748737?%5Fencoding=UTF8)[/b]
    
    [[b]The medieval warhorse from Byzantium to the Crusades [/b]](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0938289845/sr=1-1/qid=1147195278/ref=sr_1_1/104-9947607-2748737?%5Fencoding=UTF8)
    
    I'm also interested in these books:

    [[b]Riding for Caesar : The Roman Emperor's Horse Guard[/b]](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674768981/qid=1147196054/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) 
    
    [b][The Roman Cavalry](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415170397/qid=1147196076/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) [/b]
    
    [[b]The Medieval Horse and its Equipment, c.1150-1450 (Medieval Finds from Excavations in London) [/b]](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1843830973/qid=1147196987/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)
    [](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1843830973/qid=1147196205/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)    [](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0500251029/qid=1147197319/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)[b][The Medieval Warhorse: Origin, Development and Redevelopment](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0500251029/qid=1147197319/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) [/b]

    [b][Roman Cavalry Equipment](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0752414216/qid=1147196076/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) [/b]
    
    [b][Horse Breeding in the Medieval World](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1851822704/qid=1147196422/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-9947607-2748737?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)
[/b]
#102

I don’t have any intention of creating any more threads at this time - maybe in the future when I have more to show.
it’s a pity. I hope you will do it soon.

What did you decide with regard to the horse’s size? Are you still intent on building a Percheron sized horse? For realism, I strongly advise against it

i will work with andalusians and spanish-norman.
I have found this pic of Romantico, THE spanish-norman:
http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~jpursley/PICTURES/breyerFest05/breyerFest2005019.jpg

Many of these books seems to be very interesting.
May be i will buy The Medieval Warhorse.

#103

I fixed the links to the books. About 5 of the links were messed up! I’d encourage you to go back and click through them again so that you can find the actual book the title is supposed to point to.

As I said, the books by Ann Hyland are superb. She talks about culture, equipment, training (soldier and horse), breeding, charging, tactics, facilities, riding methods, bits, saddles, parades and displays - and she talks about them in detail, to the point that you could do an animation of a specific parade display. I cannot recommend her books highly enough.

The others I am interested in, but I haven’t seen, except for two: Riding for Caesar and The Roman Cavalry; both are pretty good.

#104

Now that I’ve fixed the links, I assume that you mean the one by Ann Hyland, as a couple of books by separate authors have a similar title. Although I haven’t read that one by Ann Hyland, I would still recommend it based on the fact that I’ve read her two books on the Roman horse.

#105

Yes i was meaning this hyland book.
if you tell the roman one was very good, i think it would be the best choice i could make.

#106

In that picture, can you pick out the subtle points? He’s tired and relaxed, based on his half closed eyes. It’s important that you notice things like that, and not use such points as reference imagery. I’m sure if this horse perked up, he’d be much more handsome.

And do you know why horses place their hind foot like that?

#107

You might try and find some at a University library. That’s where I found two of the Hyland books. They’re not cheap. Some of them are 100USD - simply because they’re no longer in print and hard to get your hands on. If I was made of money, I’d buy them all.

#108

Further note: try AbeBooks.com and you’ll likely find better prices and even more avaliability. I found the Medieval Warhorse from Byzantium to the Crusades by Ann Hyland there for $12.

I’m currently looking for the other titles there. I’m seriously considering buying as many of those titles as I can to add to my collection (I"ve got over 70 horse books). Most of my existing books are on conformation, behavior, riding, breeds, etc. I’d like to add these historical research titles to my collection. I was completely fascinated when reading Ann Hyland’s books with regard to the Romans.

#109

So this is not a good reference? Damn!
No idea. To have a rest?

yes the problem is books are so expensive.
I have already spent so much money for my books. :slight_smile:
Moreover i 'm waiting in order to buy new books about roman army.

Abebooks seems to be a good site, but for a french guy, not so useful (the shipping for Uk is about 10$)

#110

Exactly. Horses do this all the time, and it’s just like when humans put all their weight on one foot.

Abebooks seems to be a good site, but for a french guy, not so useful (the shipping for Uk is about 10$)
There are something like 10,000 book vendors on Abebooks from all over the world, and each one sets their own shipping rates. So it depends on which vendor you’re buying from and where he’s located. Look a little harder on Abebooks and you might find what you need.

#111

Not for the eye, anyway. I wasn’t expecting you’d use that horse to model the eye but instead I was just pointing out that it helps to be familiar with horse behavior and being able to identify physical traits, moods, etc. before using any particular thing as a reference. I think that’s the first obstacle so many encounter when modeling horses - they don’t know that the horse they’ve selected isn’t reflective of their final goal.

#112

I will do it.

Tomorrow, i will post a small update of the front legs (not yet the hind legs, the wire is really a mess).

#113

Hi all.

Here a small update of the front leg (not completed) Do not pay attention to the neck.
I’m working on the top part until the elbow ( joint at the belly level).

I will see if i can make a lighter wire, it is too heavy in my opinion.
In the front view, the legs seems to be too narrow and the space between them too short.

Let me kow you comments

Thanks.

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#114

Looking pretty good. Either you’re going to have to bite the bullet and add more density to your mesh in the legs, or you’re going to have to enlarge the fetlock and hoof significantly to account for the shrinkage during smoothing/subdivision.

On a different note, what references are you using for the knee?

#115

Thanks Bryan.

I will make a few try to see what is the best, more poly or enlarging the legs cause of meshsmooth.

I really don’t kow how the mesh will work when i will rig it.

About the knees, all the pic and anatomoy pictures i was able to collect.

#116

Well, you’re going to need at least 3 or more splits at the knee area at the very least. Take a look at photos (jumping shots are good) where the knee is flexed - there’s a lot going on there. And standard weighted deformations will never get you where you need to be. I’d use some type of pose space deformation.

About the knees, all the pic and anatomoy pictures i was able to collect.
What’s the best sideview reference that you have? With good lighting and a fine coat.

#117

I keep forgetting that over the last few years I took nearly 10,000 photos of horses. I went through some of them and cropped the one’s with decent shots of the knee down to just the leg area. I specifically selected ones where the coat doesn’t obstruct the anatomical structure and the lighting lets you see clearly.

I posted 18 of them. Let me know if they help you at all. All of them can be seen here:
http://equinealbum.com/scratch2/horse_ref/model/leg/

Those 18 pictures are just the tip of the iceberg. I have tons and tons of photos…

Here are a few samples:

#118

Thanks for all these pics, it will realy help me.

i will add poly to the knee.
Still about rigging the legs what is really worrying me is the the elbow and shoulder (seems to be hard to rig since it is “stuck” to chest.

If you have any tips, it would help me.

#119

Here is a link to an article concluding that a medieval warhorse was probably about 15 hands in height:

“A Refutation of the Myth of the Giant Medieval Warhorse” by Siobhan ni Seaghdha

#120

Thx for the article, very interesting.

Here an update.

I made the legs larger and expand the space between them.
But it may looks a bit larger now, i’m not sure.

I rework the chest, the muscles definition and the hooves.
Don’t the knees look a bit too large?

For the horse experts (and specially for Bryan :slight_smile: ), should i make the trapezius or not?. I mean is this muscle visible on a horse or not?

Thanks

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