Honk if you think this is wrong

#1

Recently a collegue of mine made an image “new crusades” depicting a modern crusader. The collegue in question is a BALLISTIC PUBLISING-s “EXPOSE 8” published author and a seasoned veteran of the industry. The image in question has been choosen for front page by ITS ART mag and is a contender for image of the month on AREA(autodesk) and for the mudbox installation splash screen.
The image was REJECTED by CGSOCIETY and deemed not good enough to be shown in the 3d stills showcase gallery.
I will not quote all the great comments and response the image got on other forums except perhaps Toni Bratinicevic from BLUR studio “your best character so far, keep it up!”

So,… if you think this is wrong please just drop a quick reply -
im not a trouble maker, but i thought the image and the artist behind it deserved better then they got from the jury and CGSOCIETY

As you can see from my portfolio i have been a member of CG society for over 8 years now and it took some thinking before i decided to write this post.

here is the link to the image

NEW CRUSADES

p.s. i thought this would be the most appropriate forum for this, im sorry if im out of bounds here…

peace,

veljko popovic
www.lemonade3d.com

#2

You are brave for putting this out in the open. I have had friends that have nice work be rejected recently as well. Has put to question a lot of what I use to love about CGtalk. Not sure what to think about things recently.

I think it is safe this could become a flame war…

I say lets all try to keep it civil. I think the added constraints is good, but it might be a tad high and also perhaps is biased to some works.

This obviously has more complexity than many works deemed proper for the gallery; especially shader wise.

Been on cgtalk a long long time. I love the crits I have had and has helped me grow as an 3D artist. I just do not think down right rejection is the right answer. Seen plenty of threads on the 3D wip dropping in as well. Some looking for crits and some feeling down right rejected for almost no reason. Anything can improve sure, but come on…

Oh well my two cents. Love Cgtalk just not in love with the new system that seems to be really bothering people as of late.

#3

I’m not the least bent to start an issue about this matter, but I too am sometimes puzzled by choices made by CGsoc people.
The above especially applies to to the 3Dstills section.
My hope is that what you point at is not starting from considerations not related to art or technique, like the political implications of the subject.
I’m looking forward for more members’ opinions.

#4

Sadly, this will probably become a flame war, but my 2c:

The standards have gone up. Some people have complained, and looking at their work, it simply wasnt good enough. But, i’ve seen some work that I would almost consider for a CG Award that’s been rejected. Sooo, I think maybe the judging process needs to altered, i’ve seen some REALLY talented people almost quite cg talk over this, which is never good.

#5

An image got rejected, stop the press and post it in the NEWS section, quick!

Seriously…
Get in touch with an admin, mistakes happen, and have been rectified in the past, or maybe it was simply not considered on par with where the standards were set at the time of submission.
In either case, a hurt ego isn’t news material I’m afraid.

#6

Gee, you don’t think the rejection had anything to do with the huge religious overtone do u?

#7

Actually seriously doubt it.
There are even pieces of religious art and religious arts reproductions in the gallery, not to mention a gorillion pieces that are wh40k inspired (such as this one here) which almost always pick up on the same crusader/holy inquisition theme.

We have rules against religious discussion because of the inevitable flame wars that arise from it, however the site isn’t either pro or anti-religion di per se’, particularly not so if art is on top of it anyway.

#8

Well a picture speaks a thousand words. I’m not religious in anyway myself. But I can imagine that many members of a certain religion seeing a picture of a crusader with angels wings, would read that like 1000 words saying that crusaders were the good guys. And that might just start a picture flame war.

#9

Hi Jaco,
actually the image is not mine,so no egos hurt here- its from a collegue, and he got in touch with the admin but with no results…

I have no intention of creating a flame war, but i felt it might be news to someone that images done by EXPOSE published industry veterans that end up on front pages and get great reviews on sites like ITs art, and are praised by such people who work in Blur studio dont make the cut here.

perhaps the method of choosing works to be displayed on the forums is at fault and not the artist behind the work, and if that is the case it would say its news worthy or worthy of some other more appropriate forum.

#10

As a member of said religious group, I’m not finding it offensive at all, and anyone from said group who finds this offensive and yet somehow is undeterred by the images of half-naked ladies often on display here would be one hypocritical, whining, attention-seeking a$$hat.

And as a concerned forum member, I think this thread should be moved to general discussion.

#11

I somehow doubt it tbh. But even assuming a mail fell through the cracks, this is THE NEWS section, and there was a thread addressing exactly this problem you could have easily searched for.

#12

Hi Jaco,
I know about the thread you mention, but i wanted to post a new thread.

I did not get if you doubt that my collegue contacted the admins or that the work is not mine?
You can check the work in question posted on my collegues portfolio http://milivoj-lemonade3d.cgsociety.org/gallery/

and if you are in doubt that he contacted the admins here is the mail :

Milivoj,

   sorry, but we don't interfere with the judges decisions on       these matter.
     I suggest to read/contribute to the following thread: [http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=955043&page=1&pp=15](http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=955043&page=1&pp=15)

personally I think the image excellent.

     Rhys

i would like to keep the thread about the question weather its ok to have the system of submitions where works which end up on the front page of respected and valuable forums such as the AREA or its ART get rejected here.
Any other questions that are not directly connected to this should be done in Private messages. This includes any doubts about my identety, motives or whatever.

please move the thread to a more appropriate forums if needed.

just tryin to keep it real.

thx!

#13

Agreed, this isn’t news. However just for record its nice to see 3d stills hasn’t got 20 new images every few hours.

#14

The only reason I can see for this being rejected, is that it feels a bit like a turntable view. Theres just the model and a very easy background, so it doesnt feel like an evocative art piece.

#15

Why it maybe got rejected:

The artistic and technical aspects of the image are not an issue, they are clearly very good. It is simply the fact that the image could be interpreted the wrong way by someone else. Because this is an international public forum that encourages artistic and technical skills as opposed to ideas or ideologies there is no reason to foment its exposure.

Even though I am personally not offended by it I could see someone else do feel that way… I was born and raised in a 90% religious country.

This forum welcomes the universality of the artist, the display of his work and promotes the sharing of skills to others… nothing more. Medical, Psychological, Economic, Social, Sexual and Religious opinions in any way are discouraged for obvious reasons.

Your friend can easily hide a layer/change a texture map an make the image non potentially offensive…

or you can always post it somewhere else.

#16

Yes… Censorship is the best solution… Maybe people can try looking farther than their own set of beliefs and try to accept other’s opinions even if it contradicts their own.

( not directing this at you mexfogel, Im being general ) :slight_smile:

#17

I dont understand. The image was accepted in other galleries? Won awards? Made a front page magazine cover? Yet, its a major thing that it didn’t get into one specific gallery?

Ive submitted artwork to various art shows and exhibitions. Sometimes the work gets accepted. Sometimes it gets rejected. When it gets rejected, I dont drive to the exhibitioners house, and demand a reason why-I move on.

I dont understand why CGTalk is held to a different standard from other galleries. If this wasn’t accepted in The Area, or as a featured work in 3DWorld, or DIDNT make the cover of Its Art, would there be angry posts or emails sent?

It didnt get into this gallery. It got into others. Thats about the extent of the conspiracy.

#18

I think it is wrong to think of the forums as such an elite thing as exhibition and art show. It should be a place where people get to show their work to be critiqued, talked about and a place to share ideas.
I realize that there should be standards of quality to prevent the forum from being cluttered with half finished attempts. But, Pyke, to look upon a forum to be as difficult a place to show your work as an art exhibition is in my humble oppinion just wrong…

p.s. i do not think the image was rejected cos of religious connotations…i have seen crusaders before on these forums…even saw an image of the pope in las vegas if i recall correctly (that was a funny image:) )

#19

I think technically it’s a nice image. The pose could have been a bit more exciting but all in all it’s a nice piece of work with a creative twist. So the only remaining concern about it could be it’s historical/political/religious context.

I agree it would have been self-censorship to change textures etc… But as soon as every artist touches these kind of topics, he/she must be ready to appeal to a specific audience only and I think that could have been one of the reasons for why it didn’t make it here.

(the other one being the somewhat stiff pose of the character)

#20

But this forum has an area where work can be critiqued, talked about, and a place to share ideas. That place is the WIP forums (which honestly I visit more often than the completed work section, as I find that artists are more open to discussion there than in the ‘completed’ threads).

Why is it wrong? Because its digital it should be ‘easier’ to get into? I’m not being defensive, Im genuinely asking. If CGTalk have a submission process, and the work didn’t make it past, why is there such furor? Perhaps not in this particular case, but there have been numerous threads in the past where artists act like not getting a front page, or not getting work in a gallery is the absolute worst thing that could EVER happen.

If it didn’t get through, post it in the WIP forum. If you do that, and ask a mod or forum leader to give you some crit about your work, I can PROMISE you they will. The mods that I know on this site are genuinely nice people, with a love for art, and a want for people to improve themselves.
And if you aren’t willing to do that for your image, then just accept that it isn’t going to make it into the gallery.

ps-yeah-the religious angle is definitely NOT a reason for rejection. I know Leigh, and can tell you that if there is one person who is against censorship in ANY way, its her.