HMC # 20 - Expressions: Me, Myself, and the Inner Zombie

#21

Hey pal,

First I gotta say, I love that you have motivation, keep trying. It’s always good. Well, let’s get to the point, I’ve prepared something that it might help you even though I don’t know, since it’s a wip, you have already planned to fix some of the mistakes(which seen from my point of view, gotta say no expert whatsoever) or if you think my image is not helpful, you may ignore as well, I don’t really mind :smiley:

I also want to say, if you think something is wrong, open up photoshop or print your model and references and draw lines on them, check angles, you might use shadows/highlights to figure out what’s there… Well, that’s what I do.

Keep going :smiley:

#22

Hah cool idea :slight_smile: I remember when I was at university we had a talk from an ILM guy who showed us stuff they were doing on The Hulk (the Ang Lee version), and Ang Lee had said he really wanted the guy to be able to emote, so they animated a test where they had the Hulk crying like a girl (based on footage of a girl crying). Really worked despite the fact that it was a green monster doing it, because it was so well executed. I think the same would apply to emoting zombies :slight_smile:

Good start on the model. The main thing that seems off at the moment is the width of the eyes and the mouth. The angle from the outer corners of the eyes to the corners of the mouth seems pretty spot on, but they both seem too stretched across the face. If you could pull them both in, I think that’s gonna help (and make that cheekbone a bit less prominent). Once they’re less wide, the nose would probably seem too wide, but that’s how it goes isn’t it, fixing one thing always shows up others :slight_smile:

Good luck man, it’s gonna be a fun thread to follow

#23

Thank you for the suggestion, Airflow. The corners of the mouth are always something that gives me a lot of trouble (even more than the eyes, usually). I was thinking of just deleting the whole mouth and starting again.

Your image was VERY helpful, and I sincerely thank you for taking the time to illustrate it. This is fantastic criticism and feedback, one of the reasons I enjoy the HMC forum so much. Naturally, some of the issues you mentioned(such as the nose, which I noticed right after I posted the WIP image), I had plans on revisiting, but being able to see it from someone else’s perspective is refreshing and educational. On a sidenote, I personally always find it so much easier to critique someone else’s work than my own, so I really appreciate this kind of feedback.

I would love to see the Hulk crying like a little girl ( Doesn’t he actually get teary eyed in the Ang Lee version?-I can’t remember for sure).

Thank you for your input. Again, this is a good crit, and one I appreciate. I will keep your suggestions in mind as I refine the form.

I think with these 3 crits and a few more hours on my mesh, I will be prety close to a finished result that I can start sculpting and deforming. Thanks a lot again guys :beer:

-Rage

#24

What a totally cool modeling idea.
Self portraiture has always been the essence of an artist. I may have a look into doing this challenge because of the influence your idea has given.

#25

Great Matasorapit! I’m glad I could be a source of inspiration for you. Good luck in the challenge, and I’ll be sure to stop by your thread and leave some comments.

I didn’t get a lot of work over the past few days. Spent most of the weekend playing CIV4 with my girlfriend. Here’s an update nonetheless. I’ve add an ear to my model, worked out the outline for hair (if I decide to give myself some), reworked some loops and tweaked the mesh as per the suggestions listed above (thanks again guys), and started blocking in the torso. It may not look EXACTLY like me now, but it’s a spitting image of me when I was 16 or so (minus asymetry, of course).

My goal for this week is to get the entire base mesh done and then zombified. I think my technique for this is going to be to duplicate the mesh then use it as reference. From here I can start sinking, drooping, wrinkling and stretching the skin and fleshy areas, while ensuring that the bone structure does not change.

-Rage

#26

Oh, it’s fast, will you planning to build the whole body? I feel his cheek
is more width now, or it’s your plan?

By the way thanks for your comment~

#27

good progress - the last version’s much closer to the ref… I’d say the shape of the face is too triangular at the moment - the ref is more rectangular and the bottom of the face doesn’t get much narrower than the top.

The eyes are a bit too wide apart as well… I feel you should post more straight on shots - they’re easy to judge and crit than the 3/4 shot.

keep going :thumbsup:

#28

Hi there, yes I think my crit may be similar to Intervain’s.

Maybe the eyes are a little too wide apart.
I’d also move the mouth up a little, the cheeks seem a little too wide
and the chin a little too narrow. Maybe his head a little taller or his forehead a little more forward.

Maybe you could check on the shape of the head on the side view also.
I love zombies myself. So cool stuff!

#29

Thanks guys. Looking at your crits and looking at the model, it’s hard to see. While I value your suggestions, I believe what’s off is the neck area which needs to be fattened. I think the fact that it’s sunken in a little lends to the triangular illusion, but matching up my ref it fits perfectly ( of course, you can’t rely too much on ref). I 'll try tweaking with the move tool in modo and see if I can come up with something a little more accurate. I will finish the torso first, though, as I’m eager to get going on the zombification (Where I’ll be sinking in all the fleshy areas anyway). Lol there’s only 3 weeks left, and I can EASILY spend the entire time moving points around until I’m satisfied, which, if I know myself, I will never be :smiley:

Here is a question that I thought someone might be able to answer, if I can make it make sense:

When modeling the eyes (of any mesh) I lay out a temp sphere, then wrap the shape of the eye around that, matching it with the imageplanes. I always end up with gaps at the corners, where the natural shape of the eyeball slopes backwards. On a person, in those corners, there`s flesh which seems to come from the inside of the lids and push up against the eye, filling in those gaps. What do you guys do to fill in this fleshy area and prevent deep dark shadows where there should be none? I was thinking of just throwing in a plane primitive and sculpting it.

Thanks a lot again, guys. Your input is valuable to me.

-Rage

#30

Nice work here, Joel!

  The head appears off in respect to your ref shots though. Bear in mind that as a general rule of thumb a head is roughly 5 eyeballs wide, with about one eyeball-width in the center between the eyes, individual variance applicable here. My guess is that you have much more space between the eyes, widening the entire head, especially the cheekbones too much. I'd also say the chin is a bit too wide and the forehead not tall enough, but you can check that better with your refs. Facial proportioning is a delicate matter and seemingly minimal changes can sometimes make a huge visual difference. I regularely spend loads of time on that, especially when trying to recreate a likeness.
  
  There's numerous approaches to your question. First you need to pull the outer corners of the lids in and around the eyeballs to match the shape a bit better. You're modeling the eyelids too flat. To completely close the gaps you can either cheat in various ways, ie with a sculpt deformer staying put inside the eyeball and pull the inside parts of the corners furhter into the eyeball or you can go the "straight" way and model the lacrimals in, which is what I would recommend. On a rig you can skin those to the eye joints to move with them as the eyes rotate, hence not only keeping the gap solidly closed, but adding some interesting secondary animation as well.
  
  Keep 'em updates coming!
  
  Salute!
#31

Thanks for the crit Felix. After rendering this I noticed that the head is indeed too wide. I will bring it in a little for the next update. In the meantime, I followed your suggestions and trimmed down the chin a little, and brought the eyes in as well. I did a little work on the body, mostly working out proportions(this part is preliminary, and have not gotten very far on it yet).


-Rage

#32

It’s certainly getting there. Will you be working on some asymmetry soon? I think it will really bring you out more. Good progress so far.

#33

Thanks Vshen. I think I’ll be getting to the asymetry soon, but I’m concentrating on getting as much universally done as possible. I gotta say, though, that I’m not working as hard on this one as I did on the smurfs from HMC#19, so the progress is slower. But you are right. I think that once I start desymetrising the face the look should be more complete.

-Rage

#34

Good job so far Joel, I’ll keep following up though I won’t be participating on this one. Can’t wait to see the “Inner zombie” in you…

#35

Merci Eric. J’vais essayer de pas te decevoir. :smiley:

Je me souviens pas si je te l’ai dit pendant le HMC#19, mais ma famille viens de Chicoutimi. Il y en a beaucoup a chicoutimi, Arvida et jonquiere.

-Rage

#36

Si tu viens faire un tour dans le coin, envoie-moi un message, on ira prendre une bière!

Enough french already… :wink:

Eric

#37

Lol you bet I will. I actually haven’t been out there in quite a few years. Perhaps I’m due.

-Rage

#38

I’ve made some more topology adjustments, to keep in mind the right flow for the shrugging of shoulders and what not. I’ve modeled the inside of his mouth, and threw in a couple teeth. I am going to have a REALLY hard time with this, I realized. I modeled the gums directly out of the mouth cavity, but tongue and mouth seperately. This is what is gonna suck: making sure my geometry stays intact inside the mouth when I open and close it. Modo has some amazing softmod tools, and the falloffs you can drop in for the transform tools are great. You can get really quick, accurate deformations using these falloffs, but some things, such as gums and teeth, don’t deform at all. Also, until v401 comes out, there are no constraints. So I can’t even constrain the teeth to the gums for accurate motion. It’ll be a doozy. Luckily, I will be a zombie, and will have lost most of my teeth.

At this point I’m going to take my model into zbrush for some zombification and desymetry. I haven’t posted wires in a bit so thought I’d do that as well. Unless you guys think my Topology will cause serious problems, I’m ready to proceed. The forms on the body are lacking, as I shaped it from my head with no reference, but will be using reference from a Holocaust video I’ve had lying around on my harddrive for a few years. I started watching it a while back, but couldn’t really get much more than 5 minutes in, as it was tearing my heart out of my chest, but hopefully I can ignore the horror for a bit and concentrate on the shapes I want.

-Rage

Edit:I noticed a couple nGons on the wireframe and have corrected them.

#39

You really don’t need to look at such videos from the Holocaust

For DoW2 and other projects i had to look at alot of horrible reference video and images but in the end i found that the real thing often does not look “right” at all.

In the end i found the best reference to be actual horror movies which is great because it spares you from looking at such horrible things…

Here is a list of great Zombie Movies you can rent or buy the DVDs

Dawn Of The Dead (2004 Zack Snyder remake)
Dawn Of The Dead (Original)
Braindead
28 Days (weeks,months,years) Later (which is lame)
Evil Dead
Shaun Of the Dead
Return of the Living Dead
Night Of the Living Dead

etc

  • Tyson
#40

Thanks for those comments Tyrone. I really appreciate your input. I actually own all of those movies (except for 28 weeks…later-it WAS terrible, although I found 28 days later to be a marvel in zombie movies). I will follow your suggestion.

On to the wip. I LOVE ZBRUSH. thought I’d throw that in. Anyway, This is a couple hours of work in ZB. Still just working out of my head for now, questing for forms, shapes, and an overall feel for the character (If I said an overall feel for myself, it could be taken dirty).


-Rage